Results 1 - 5 of 5
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did Jesus die spiritually? | 2 Cor 5:21 | Radioman2 | 83243 | ||
Spiritual death denies Christ's deity - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'The "spiritual death of Christ" teaching entails an implicit denial of Christ's deity and, in turn, of the Trinity.' - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Jesus was not dragged into hell by Satan, but instead committed His spirit to the Father (Luke 23:46) and went directly to paradise (v. 43). " - - - - - - - - - - - - - SPIRITUAL DEATH AND REBIRTH IN HELL: The Teachings of Kenneth Copeland [Note: Numbers in text are footnote numbers. To read footnotes providing reference sources for this article, go to: (www.equip.org/free/DC755-2.htm)] 'When it comes to defining the Atonement, Copeland says, "It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that."63 Jesus supposedly "put Himself into the hands of Satan when He went to that cross, and took that same nature that Adam did [when he sinned]."64 Copeland is here referring to the nature of Satan, as God pronounced that "Adam would die spiritually - that he would take on the nature of Satan which is spiritual death."65 He adds that "the day that Jesus was crucified, God's life, that eternal energy that was His from birth, moved out of Him and He accepted the very nature of death itself."66 'During an alleged conversation with Copeland, Jesus is said to have remarked, "It was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross....I accepted, in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off."67 We are told that Jesus "had to give up His righteousness"68 and "accepted the sin nature of Satan."69 'Contrary to the teaching that Christ underwent a change of nature (into a satanic being), the Bible depicts Jesus as having an immutable divine nature (Heb. 13:8; cf. Mal. 3:6). Moreover, in saying that "spiritual death means separation from the life of God,"70 Copeland tacitly admits that Jesus completely lost His deity. For, as we noted earlier, Copeland defines the "life of God" as "the unseen force that makes God, God." However, Scripture declares that God is eternal and unchanging and thus never ceases to be God. The Father says of Christ, "But you remain the same, and your years will never end" (Heb. 1:12). 'Finally, the notion of Jesus being overtaken by "the very nature of death" is contradicted by Jesus' claim that He has "life in Himself" (John 5:26; cf. 1:4), is "the resurrection and the life" (11:25), and is "the way, the truth, and the life" (14:6). The "spiritual death of Christ" teaching entails an implicit denial of Christ's deity and, in turn, of the Trinity. 'Still, Copeland insists "Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell" (emphasis in original).71 Copeland's description of Christ's ordeal in hell is nothing short of chilling: "He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer."72 'The situation seemed hopeless, as Jesus' "emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing; and the devil thinks he's got Him destroyed."73 However, Copeland explains that "Satan fell into the trap. He took Him [Jesus] into hell illegally. He carried Him in there [when] He did not sin."74 God found the opening He needed: "That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life....Jesus was born again - the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him - and He whipped the devil in his own backyard."75 'Copeland's account, vivid though it may be, is not in the Bible. It misuses the phrase "firstborn from the dead" (Col. 1:18) to bolster the "born again Jesus" doctrine. Actually, the term "firstborn" (Greek: prototokos) primarily denotes primacy, headship, and preeminence. And the phrase itself points to Christ's supremacy "over all creation" (v. 15) in general and those who will be raised from the dead in particular (alluding to Christ's bodily resurrection - not some spiritual resuscitation in hell). 'Moreover, Jesus was not dragged into hell by Satan, but instead committed His spirit to the Father (Luke 23:46) and went directly to paradise (v. 43). Nor was He tortured by a host of demons; He triumphed "over them by the cross" (Col. 2:15). Jesus paid for humanity's sin in full (Greek: tetelestai) at the cross (John 19:30) - not by becoming a satanic being, but through His physical sacrifice (Heb. 10:10; Col. 1:22). ____________________ To read more, including extensive footnotes, go to: (www.equip.org/free/DC755-2.htm) |
||||||
2 | Did Jesus die spiritually? | 2 Cor 5:21 | gracefull | 83253 | ||
"'Moreover, Jesus was not dragged into hell by Satan, but instead committed His spirit to the Father (Luke 23:46) and went directly to paradise" And what is Paradise? As defined by many theologians-the holding place in HELL for the righteous dead. Right? Unless you interpret that as Heaven which would be in direct conflict with Acts 2. What say ye? 'Contrary to the teaching that Christ underwent a change of nature (into a satanic being),' To take on the sin nature as men, we die spiritually becsue our sin has seperated or severed our relationship with God, as it did with Adam. Scripture tells us Jesus was the second Adam 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." I do not see in the actual quotes anywhere above that KC or anyone here on this forum has said that to die spiritually was to become a 'demonic being'.this is another distortion of what is being taught, or should I say slanderous lie. I guess one would have to look into the 'heart' to know. Satanic beings are created fallen angels. Man in his fallen state can never be a 'fallen created angel'. For man to take on the SIN NATURE is for man be in HIS fallen state, not a 'created demonic angel. Isaiah 59:2 says, "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear." "He HIMSELF bore OUR sins in HIS OWN body on the tree." Did He bear our sins or just die for them? Scripture tells us He bore them IN HIS BODY. God bless PS I see radioman, that you are still promoting divisiveness by implying this understanding of scripture is some new doctrine created by KC, in place of Bible Study... Care to join us in discussing Acts 2 or Mark 15:34 "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" |
||||||
3 | Did Jesus die spiritually? | 2 Cor 5:21 | Morant61 | 83260 | ||
Greetings Graceful! I think that part of the problem here is one of semantics. When discussing the question of whether or not Jesus went to Hell, one must answer two questions. 1) By Hell, does one mean the final place of torment for all those who reject Christ? If so, the answer is that Christ did not go here. 2) By Hell, does one mean Sheol/Hades/Paradise/Abraham's Bossom, a temporary holding place prior to the death of Christ? If so, Christ did go here. I know I have posted on the different words for Hell before. If you would like to read some of them, just use the search box. Finally, allow me to comment on the following statment of yours. You wrote: "Did He bear our sins or just die for them? Scripture tells us He bore them IN HIS BODY." The verb used in 1 Pet. 2:24 is 'anaphero'. It's primary meaning is to 'offer a sacrifice for someone or something'. In fact, it is used in this sense several times in Scripture. Consider the following verses: a) Heb. 7:27 - "Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself." 'Anaphero' is used twice in this verse. Both times is refers to the offering of a sacrifice. b) Heb. 13:15 - "Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise?the fruit of lips that confess his name." c) James 2:21 - "Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" But, the most signficant verse for this discussion is 1 Pet. 2:5: d) 1 Pet. 2:5 - "you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." Here, Peter uses 'anaphero' in the sense of offering up spiritual sacrifices. So, what does 1 Pet. 2:24 mean? It does not mean that Christ physically took sin into His body, for two reasons. First of all, 'our sins' are not physical things which can be carried. Secondly, the verb means to offer a sacrifice for something. So, all Peter is saying is that Christ offered His body for our sins. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
4 | Was Jesus' spirit abandoned? | 2 Cor 5:21 | Dan58 | 83290 | ||
Tim, your post was helpful to me, thanks. Can I make the conclusion from your post that the requirement of the law tat sin results in death was satisfied by the physical sacrifice of Jesus dying physically? I still don't understand in what sense Jesus was abandoned by God. I don't see whether or not Jesus' spirit was separated from God. I haven't checked the discussion on other verses that has already been posted. Would someone summarize the issues raised in other threads? This thread has started me thinking again about the high price that Jesus paid. The fact that Jesus was in Hades is no small matter. Does trinity require that the Father was in Hades with Jesus? Although I see that the Deity of Jesus is a Biblical requirement I don’t clearly understand why so many make the doctrine of trinity THE deciding point of sound doctrine. |
||||||
5 | Was Jesus' spirit abandoned? | 2 Cor 5:21 | Morant61 | 83304 | ||
Greetings Dan58! Thank you! Yes, I do believe that Scripture teaches that the physical death of Christ was sufficent to atone for sin. This is one of the areas where so many WOF teachers seem to miss the mark. Scripture does not teach anywhere that Christ suffered in Hell. The paradise side of Hades is not what we think of when we use the term Hell. Concerning His being forsaken, I would say that what Jesus was referring to was the darkness which fell on the land for three hours. Many believe that in that period of time, God the Father turned His face away from the cross. I have a hard time seeing this as a reference to something which happened after the death of Christ, since He spoke these words while He was yet alive. Well, I have to get a couple hours of sleep before church this morning. Chat with you later! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||