Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Still waiting.... | 1 Cor 8:5 | pcdarcan | 130927 | ||
I wasn't going to re-enter/reply (as previously stated) to this thread, but Mary... your sincere response urged me on. Bro. Tim responds that "basic logic demands that we start with the simplest statements first and then build from there." Here's another approach. Anytime a scripture (or portion of a verse) is extracted out of its context, read the surrounding verses for contextual understanding of the Bible to see what point is being established. Tim states, "It cannot be true that there are 'other gods' and are not 'other gods' at the same time! These are two contadictory statements." However, within Bible context, it can be true that there ARE 'other gods' (after all, why would God warn against worshipping 'other gods'), but no 'other [true] God'. Notice the capital "G" in the title "God" and singular nature in KJV Isaiah 45:21 "... there is no God else besides me". Interesting is the context of the preceding quote: "... there is no God else besides me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me." These qualifying remarks clarify what this scripture is really talking about. God Almighty is called a "just God" and "a Savior". And here's the point, within the context there is no other true God, just one God in whom salvation lies - a recurring theme in Isaiah. I believe that Tim may be taking some verses too literal or not allowing the surrounding verses to explain the meaning. The surrounding scriptures highlight the issue that Isaiah is trying to present, there is only one true God. Of this true God, the sciptures saith: "I have made the earth, and created man upon it;" (Isa 45:12a), "a just God and a Savior" (Isa 45:21). Isaiah (under inspiration) is building a case for worshipping the only true God and Creator for note Isa 45:20 "Assemble yourselves together and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations; they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that CANNOT save." And, that's the crux of Isaiah's writing, there is no other God (capital G) other than the true God. Isa 45:5 (American Std. Bible) says: "I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God." (Interesting that when Bibles include the name of God, it becomes less confusing to the reader.) That there are 'other gods' though (small "g") is very clear from the Bible. The statement "false gods do not really exist" is a loaded statement. Molech was a god who was worshipped, he doesn't have to be real - just real to those who worship him. Of course, we know Satan is real and was called "...the god of this world [who] has blinded the minds of unbelievers..." - NIV 2 Cor 4:4 He even tried to get Jesus (in his weakened physical state) to worship him (imagine that!) - Mt 4:9 KJV "And saith (Satan) unto him (Jesus), All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me." I don't doubt that Tim believes in his interpretation of his quoted verses and I actually understand what he is saying - I just respectfully disagree because I surmise that they are taken out of context. Hope this is helpful. |
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2 | Still waiting.... | 1 Cor 8:5 | Mary01 | 130983 | ||
Tim's stand for trying to be as "literal" is admirable. You ask me is are your thoughts helpfull? Yes. I still am trying to fit 2 Cor. 4:4's use of god and what Tim is saying but am having trouble. I want to believe what the scriptures say and that means all of them. I work hard at what you stated about making things fit context too, as I feel that is very important. Thanks for the input. Mary |
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3 | Still waiting.... | 1 Cor 8:5 | pcdarcan | 130994 | ||
You're very welcome Mary - keep up the earnest research and comparison's with other portions of the Bible. I found your comment interesting and very sincere: "I still am trying to fit 2 Cor. 4:4's use of god and what Tim is saying but am having trouble." I believe it can be explained in this way. When other scriptures don't support a viewpoint, it's like a piece of puzzle forced into a location - it really doesn't interlock and when you stand back and look at the overall picture, it's slightly askew and doesn't match the surrounding pieces - no amount of reasoning is going to convince anyone that the puzzle piece is in the proper place. If someone leaves that piece in place, it will only cause confusion to the overall picture and people who look at it closely will always reason, 'this piece isn't quite right, I'm having trouble seeing how it fits'. It doesn't fit because the Bible does say there are "other gods", however there is only 'one true God' and from that true God's perspective, there is not another true "God" (or 'there is not another me, God'). It's reasonable when you view it that way - otherwise, you have to do a lot of dancing to disprove other scriptures that clearly indicate that there are other gods. The reason tranlators translate the small "g" in Hebrew to upper-case in English "G" is because they understand this argument and want to convey the true meaning of the Hewbrew text into English, or else it really would be confusing. Wish you the best in your research! |
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4 | Still waiting.... | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 130996 | ||
Greetings Pcdarcan! The only problem with your approach to interpretation is that you must add words that are not in the text to force the text to read what you want it to read. :-( Is. 37:19 clearly reveals how to understand passages where 'things' are called 'gods' without having to ignore the actual words of Jehovah: "They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands." Both times that the word 'gods' appears in this verse it is the Hebrew word 'elohim'. Notice that the first occurance speaks of their 'gods', but the second occurance denies that there were actually 'gods'. This is what I have been saying all along my friend. Many things can be CALLED an 'elohim' by people, but they are not in fact 'elohim'. Thus, the JW's are false witnesses because they try to claim that Jesus is in fact another 'god' besides Jehovah. Your solution forces us to add words to the text that are simply not there. Jehovah doesn't say that there aren't any other 'capital "G" Gods', but that there are other 'lower case "g" gods'. He simply says that there are no other 'elohim' but Him. Nor, does the text say that there are 'no other 'true' elohim but Me'. He quite simply says that there ARE NO OTHER ELOHIM BESIDES ME! In all my years on this forum, I never thought that I would have to defend the very clear statement of Jehovah to such a decree. Those who are trying to defend the JW's position seem quite willing to 'suppose' that God really meant to say such and such...., but completely unwilling to actually listen to what Jehovah actually said. I fully understand the concept of looking at the context. However, looking at the context cannot simply be a pretext to change the clear meaning of a statement. You would have us to believe that Jehovah's statement: "There is no other elohim besides Me", actually means, "There are other elohim besides Me". That simply is context my friend, but pretext! :-( Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Still waiting.... | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 130997 | ||
Correction........... Sorry my friend, but my last sentence should have read: "That simply is NOT context, but pretext!" Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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