Results 1 - 15 of 15
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Mary01 | 130599 | ||
Tara022, I have printed out all this that you wrote (the whole chain of posts) and am keeping it in a folder and mark it all up. I have studied it through and through and am very impressed! You are logical and scriptural. I wish you would post more as I am comparing what Jehovah's Witnesses write and what others write about them and their reasons for not agreeing with them. I then can decide what moves me to believe what God has told us through the Bible as to what is true. There are several that really hate the witnesses, I guess you noticed, but that too is told in the Bible would happen, especially when they (those that hate) are shown that they are wrong. Anyway, just letting you know that you are doing a good job and I can't but see the humor in the other posts that lack the logic and reasoning and depth in Bible knowledge. Keep it up. Mary |
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2 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 130612 | ||
Greetings Mary! Welcome to the forum! I do pray that you have not fallen prey to the false teachings of the self proclaimed Jehovah's Witnesses. They teach that Jehovah is just one of many gods. They believe that He is the greatest of the gods, but not the only god. The problem is that Jehovah Himself denies this teaching. Allow me to illustrate: 1) Is. 45:5 - "I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me," 2) iS. 45:18 - "For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited — he says: ‘I am the LORD, and there is no other." 3) Is. 45:22 - "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other." 4) Is. 46:9 - "Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me." 5) Is. 43:10 - "'You are my witnesses,' declares the LORD, 'and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." Here are five verses where Jehovah specifically says that there are no other gods but Him. Now, who do you believe? Jehovah or His self proclaimed witnesses. The last verse is my favorite example. In Is. 43, Jehovah does speak of witnesses, yet these witnesses are witnesses to the exact opposite of what Jehovah actually says. In other words, they are false witnesses. Look closely at Is. 45:22! Jehovah says that there is no other god but Him, yet the JW's teach that there are many gods. Look closely at Is. 43:10! Jehovah says that there is no god formed either before or after Him, yet JW's teach that Jehovah created a 'god' named Jesus. Who is right? If you have fallen prey to this false teaching, I urge you to be honest with the text of Scripture. Don't let anyone lead you astray. These verse are clear, plain, and unqualified. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 130623 | ||
Hi Tim, I don't believe that we have to prove that there are no other "gods". There are indeed other lords and gods. However there is only one God. Isaiah 43:10 says that "Before Me there was no God [NASB and NKJ] formed, And there will be none after Me." Key however, to the discussion with the JW is that "there is no Savior besides Me". That capitalization is the interpretation that I believe we should realize. There is no strange god among you Isaiah 43:12 says. This Jesus is not a strange god, He is God come in the flesh. He and the Father are one. In order for the JW to be true witnesses of the Lord God, they would have to realize that there is only one Savior. Isaiah 43:12, "It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are *My witnesses", declares the *Lord, "And I am God." John 10:30, "*I and the *Father are one." From the heart, Ray |
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4 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 130635 | ||
Greetings Ray! I disagree my friend! The JW's reject the true nature of Christ, so the first step in opening their eyes to the truth is to focus on Christ's true nature. Satan does not want them to know who Christ really is, thus he deceives them into beliving that Jesus is 'a god', not Jehovah Himself. There are many things that people call 'gods', but God is quite clear that there is no other god but Him. I can take some wood, shape it into an idol, worship it, and call it my god - but it remains a piece of wood! :-) Isaiah does not say, 'There are no other Gods but me'! It says, 'I am 'elohim' and there are no other 'elohim' besides Me! If we allow them to continue to evade and twist this simple truth, they we will never come to know Christ for who He really is! Now, I agree that Scripture is also quite clear that there is no other Savior but Jehovah. Scripture is also clear that there is no other Creator but Jehovah. But, we have to remain focused on a single point before moving on to other truths. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 130842 | ||
Hi Tim, You wrote, "There are many things that people call 'gods', but God is quite clear that there is no other god but Him. I can take some wood, shape it into an idol, worship it, and call it my god - but it remains a piece of wood! :-) Isaiah does not say, 'There are no other Gods but me'! It says, 'I am 'elohim' and there are no other 'elohim' besides Me! The first sentence brings forth the question from me, "Is God a god?" You said that God is quite clear that there is no other god [sic] but Him. Your last sentence has some questionable grammar regarding plurality. "There are no other 'elohim' besides Me." needs a reference Scripture. I agree with you in principle. 2 Kings 5:15, "..."Behold now, I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel;..." Isaiah 44:6, "...And there is no God besides Me." For Isaiah 45:21 I offer this interpretation. "(I) declare things that are upright...Is is not I, the Lord? And there is no other [god] besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me/." Isaiah 45:6, "That men may know from the rising to the setting sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the (Lord), and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:22, "Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am (God), and there is no other." From the heart, Ray |
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6 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 130860 | ||
Greetings Ray! 'Elohim' is simply the Hebrew word for 'God'. It is plural in form. That is why the sentence seemed odd in terms of grammar! :-) As far as your question concerning is God a god, the Hebrew simply doesn't focus on capitalization. Isaiah simply says over and over again, 'I am elohim and besides me there is no other elohim'. You and I would say that He is not a god, but God. However, the Hebrew doesn't make that distinction. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 130896 | ||
Hi Tim, You have not given a Scripture reference yet for "I am elohim and besides me there is no other elohim". If you have in mind Isaiah 45:21, I have given you my interpretation of the verse; namely, that "there is no other [leaving out (g)God or making it lower case "god"] besides Me". The idea of the context is that there is no other god who can save. Verse 20 talks about how they "carry about their wooden idol, And pray to a god who cannot save". The Jehovah's Witness who looks to another god in John 1:1 will find one who can not save for they deny that the Word is God. They need a Savior. This One, this Savior, says that there is no other [god] besides Him. The "This One" of John 1:1 was in the beginning with God. 1) God came to earth and dwelt among us. There is no strange god among us. Isaiah 45:14, "...Surely God is with you, and there is none else, No other (God)." 15 "Truly, Thou art a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, Savior." Israel has been saved by the Lord; Isaiah 45:17. There is none else, no other God; verse 14. What are some other verses to consider for "no other elohim"? From the heart, Ray |
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8 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 130908 | ||
Greetings Ray! Is. 45:21 is one of the verses I was thinking of! However, as I said, there simply isn't any capitalization in Hebrew. Scripture simply uses 'elohim' in each case. Other verses with 'no' or 'no other elohim' include: Is. 44:6, 45:5, and 46:9. The point that the JW's are trying to make is that there are in fact other beings who by nature are 'elohim'. They are not 'Almighty God', but they are 'elohim'. Scripture clearly denies this teaching. Just because I call something a 'god', doesn't make it a 'god'. Is. 37:19 makes this point: "They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands." Notice that 'elohim' is used twice in this verse. Once to describe the things worshipped as gods, and again to state that they were not in fact 'gods'. This has been the point I have been trying to make all along. At the moment, I am not concerned with capitalization. I am concerned with a system of false theology that teaches people that there are many gods. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 132118 | ||
Hi Tim, I understand that you are not interested at the moment in capitalization. However, I think that you are needlessly fighting for the idea that there are no gods. What you should be stressing, IMO, is that there are no OTHER GODS. What the Scriptures teach is that Jehovah says "There is no God besides Me." My fear is that you will feel called upon to declare that there are no other "lords". Deuteronomy 10:17, "For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe." The Scriptures that you gave me, Isa 44:6, 45:5 and 46:9, do not have the "OTHER GODS" phrase that I am looking for. I think that capitalization is important in discussing Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses because of John 1:1. We do not want them to think that Jesus was a god, indeed a strange god, among us when He came to earth. John 1:2, "This One was in the beginning with God." From the heart, Ray |
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10 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Morant61 | 132126 | ||
Greetings Ray! I understand your point my friend. However, the Hebrew says, 'There is no other elohim but me'. Big 'G' or little 'g' doesn't make any difference in this context. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | One God, One Jesus Christ | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 132144 | ||
Hi Tim, The only context of "There is no other elohim but me" that I am aware of is your Isaiah 45:21 reference. The verse is surrounded by occasions of "there is no other", "none else", "none except Me"; but the 45:21 reference is the only one for "There is no "other" God besides Me." The NWT of the Jehovah's Witness says this: Isaiah 45:21, "[Who] has reported it from that very time? Is it not I, Jehovah, besides whom there is no other God; a rigteous God and a Savior, there being none excepting me?" The question is "Who has reported it?" A question for you Tim, how do you interpret Isaiah 45:19? Would you go with the NKJ "I declare things that are right" or with the NASB "Declaring things that are right"? From the heart, Ray |
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12 | No other God besides Me? | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 134889 | ||
Are there any other verses besides Isaiah 45:21 that reads, "there is no other God besides Me". Or as the KJ reads, "there is no God else besides me". From the heart, Ray |
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13 | No other God besides Me? | 1 Cor 8:5 | mark d seyler | 134893 | ||
Hi Ray, Here are a few you can peruse, all from Isaiah: 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, 45:5, 45:18, 45:21, 45:22, and 46:9. All of these record God's own claim that He is the only God, and there is none other. Love in Christ, Mark |
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14 | No other God besides Me? | 1 Cor 8:5 | Ray | 134913 | ||
Hi Mark, Thank you for the Scriptures. None of them except Isaiah 45:21 have what I am looking for; the words in order of "no other God besides Me". Isaiah 44:8 says "Is there any God besides Me? Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." So that is close to what I am looking for because it has "any God besides"; but what I am looking for is "no other God besides". Isaiah 45:21 has "no other God besides" but it is the only one that I know of so far. My point or hypothesis is that this verse should have a lower case "elohim" (meaning gods) in the verse. So I would interpret the verse as saying, "Is it not I, the Lord? And there is no other besides Me." This is what the verses in the chapter are saying: 45:6, "I am the Lord, and there is no other." 45:22, "...For I am God, and there is no other." 1) If "elohim" is in the Hebrew manuscript and is not merely implied, then I would interpret Isaiah 45:22, "Is it not I, the Lord? And there is no other gods besides Me." We do have "no other gods besides me" in the Scriptures, notably Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before [Or, besides] Me." Thank you for your help. I hope that I am clear in what I am saying and looking for. From the heart, Ray |
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15 | No other God besides Me? | 1 Cor 8:5 | mark d seyler | 134928 | ||
Hi Ray, I thought I was responding to an original question, and I did not realize this was part of an ongoing discussion. I've now re-read your question in context to the thread, and I think I understand what you are seeking. I know of no other scriptures that use those words in that order, however, the Bible seems clear in it's statements if taken in totality. There are many things that are called gods. There is only one real God. Jesus is the only God, and He came to earth as a Man. The cultist who argues, being willfully deceived, will argue against any Biblical proof endlessly. I admire, commend, and pray for you, Tim, Hank, and others who faithfully offer apologetics to those who would try to subvert the gospel and this forum. God bless you! Love in Christ, Mark |
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