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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | Reformer Joe | 55007 | ||
Thanks for the re-post. We certainly have gone at least 15 minutes without a debate on the Trinity, so I am pleased that you re-hashed something that was settled 1700 years ago yet again. RevC's comments, while extensive, are not a successful defense against the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. First of all, no Trinitarian denies points 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 17, 19, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28, 30, 31, and 32. I don't know what he was getting at here, but all of those points fall within trinitarianism. As for the rest of the points, they are either irrelevant (e.g. number 1), based on false premises which have nothing to do with Scriptural revelation whatsoever (such as items 20-21), are not supported by the Scripture verses given (e.g. number 29) or clearly can be seen as non-Oneness in their context (such as number 22, after reading down to Revelation 5:1-6, which shows the One on the throne, God the Father, giving the book to the Lamb, Jesus). I will state my challenge from before. I will hereby renounce Trinitarianism if any of the following things can be shown by you to be unscriptural. 1. There is one God 2. The Father is God. 3. Jesus is God. 4. The Holy Spirit is God. 5. God can exist as all Three simultaneously (e.g. the baptism of Jesus or the transfiguration). 6. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit do things to each other (Son obeying Father, Father sending Son, Father and Son sending Spirit, Son praying to Father, Father talking audibly to Son, The Son being the mediator and intercessor between us and the Father, the Spirit praying for us to the Father, Father being well-pleased by the Son), and referring to each other in the third person (i.e. using the word "He" in speaking of another One of them). This shows a clear subject-object distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity was not some concocted scheme to accommodate paganism. Nor was it Constantine's iron-fisted control at Nicea. All of the biblical truths above, taken together, mean that God is either triune or deliberately deceiving His creation to make them think that He is. I am more comfortable with the former conclusion! The biggest laugh of all is that the Oneness adherents see no problem with a God who has multiple personalities and talks to Himself and about Himself AS IF He were three in Person; but refuse to acknowledge the true biblical distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to their own destruction. --Joe! |
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2 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | HamsteRulz | 55016 | ||
Allow me to clarify for all of us Oneness believers. God is a Spirit. He has been that way for infinite time. God then decides that He wants to commune with people. He is now sick and tired of the same old same old with the angels. He wants people who He has given a free chiose to love and obey Him so He created this earth and everything in it. Now when Adam and Eve sinned they chose to cut off that relationship with God. God of course wants to restore that relationship because that was His original intention for creating us. God also wanted to dwell among us because He wanted to be with us so when the Exodus came along God had Moses create a temple wherein He could dwell. For God this eventually got old because He just wasnt quite close enough to us as He would like. And being that that which is spirit is spirit and that which is flech is flesh God just couldnt come down with all His glory and be like, "Here I am!" So God came up with a plan to take on human flesh. He chose a girl, a virgin girl, a girl who knew no man just to show us that He is the Almighty God, and He married her so to speak and she had a child. This child was no ordinary child it was God in the flesh, but because of the natural processes that God created Himself, He chose to be this child, to grow, and to then reveal Himself and regain the relationship that was lost years and years ago. So throughout His 33 years of living, God taught His wisdom that only the omniscience God would know. Then upon His death, He shed his blood for the sins of the world as a sacrifice because that was the only way that He set up for sins to be forgiven at that time. That was also as to say He overcame the flesh. That is something that no normal man has ever been able to overcome on his own, but God because He was a Spirit robed in flesh He was able to overcome the flesh obtaining the keys to death, hell, and the grave. After His death, God made His Spirit available as a gift so that us humans can oversome this flesh as well. That is when we here about the Holy Ghost(Spirit). The Holy Spirit is a small portion of God Himself that dwells in those that ask of Him. The reason why Jesus refered to God(Himself) as the Father was because that is who He was physically. Physically God was Jesus' father even though Jesus was God. Now I personally believe that God does not have three personalities. That is like saying God is crazy and deserves to be in a mental institution. No, God is God and He takes on different forms as well as positions. God is a God of unity as we see throughout the whole Bible. Why then would God DIVIDE Himself. There is ONE God, not three, not three in one, and not two, or two in one, but He is ONE God. |
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3 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | Reformer Joe | 55017 | ||
That's a lot of words, but I am unclear...which one of the 6 points I made are you denying to be Scriptural? As I said before, just prove any ONE of them to not be taught in the Bible, and it is "Goodbye, Trinity!" Best of luck! --Joe! |
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