Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | Reformer Joe | 55172 | ||
I don't recall ever stating how I feel about you as a person, which would be ridiculous since for all I know you are my next-door neighbor. Nor did I cut you down to shreds. I may have done so to Oneness theology, but I did so with the clear revelation of God's word. If you are worhiping God falsely, HamtseRulz, you need to repent of it and worship God as he shows Himself to be in the Bible. To point out the errors of what you have been taught is not a spiteful or cruel thing. And, like I said before, of I am wrong on any one of those six points I made, I warmly welcome your correction and will reject the concept of the Trinity. But if I am not wrong, perhaps you should start examining the Scriptures as I suggested and question what you have been taught. Feel free to come back and use Scripture to answer the objections I raised at any time. --Joe! |
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2 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | HamsteRulz | 55264 | ||
Oh, about those points ... 1,5, and 6 are correct, but 2-4 are not. The Father is not God, the Son is not God, and the Holy Spirit is not God. God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Spirit. There is a difference. This is not heresy nor is it false teaching. I am not a false prophet I just have a different understanding of the Word than you, but I do not call you a false prophet just because of your different beliefs so I expect the same from you all. There is a different way of showing that someone is wrong other than calling them a false prophet and their teachings to be heresy. And who knows, if I am wright then that would put you in the position of blasheming the Holy Spirit which is the only unforgiveable sin. For your sake of just being safe I ask that you not call me or other people false prophets nor their teachings heresy. But like I was saying about the Godhead ... if the Father was God and the Son was God then the Son would have to be concidered the Father as well as of course the Holy Spirit, but that is not so. For how can the Father be the Son and the Holy Spirit when at His baptism we see all three at work. What I'm saying is that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and because He is omnipresent He can be all three roles at the same time. It's like a business, you may be one person with three job descriptions. You still have to perform each individual job as though it was your only one but in reality you have three and because you do those three positions the business runs smoothly. In the begining there was no Father, Son, or Holy Spirit it was just God. In the New Testament God decided to change things and I clarify so no one gets the wrong impression. It's not that things that God created were not perfect cause they were, but we through our sin made it bad we made it not so perfect anymore. So God sought that it was time to change. So there we see that God took on the roles of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God established this system so that He was the employer and He too was His employee so to speak. Therefore the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not God, but rather God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. | ||||||
3 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | Reformer Joe | 55297 | ||
Your post surprises me, because most Oneness people have a problem with the last two, since that is where Oneness falls apart. You wrote: "The Father is not God, the Son is not God, and the Holy Spirit is not God. God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Spirit. There is a difference." No, no difference in the way I was stating it. When you say "Our Father, who art in Heaven." Are you addressing Him as God"? When you say, "Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ," are you referring to God? When you read, "the Spirit helps us in our weakness," do you consider that passage to be referring to God? That is the point I was making. I realize that you consider all three to be Jesus Christ. The doctrine of the Trinity is established in part by the notions that the Father has the nature and attributes and being of God, and so do the Son and Holy Spirit. Please explain to me how you can hold to the last two points and still be an advocate of Oneness. You wrote: "There is a different way of showing that someone is wrong other than calling them a false prophet and their teachings to be heresy." Never said YOU were a false prophet. Your teaching is heresy, and you believe mine is as well. We are called to speak out against false teachings, and the inspired apostle Paul had must more scathing things to say about the false teachers of his day. You wrote: "In the begining there was no Father, Son, or Holy Spirit it was just God." My Bible reads thusly: "n the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." --John 1:1-2 Who was this who at the same time was WITH God and WAS God IN THE BEGINNING? --Joe! |
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4 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | HamsteRulz | 55485 | ||
Yes I did say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not God, but I was not saying that to prove that they do not exist or whatever might have been taken out of that by anyone. But I said that to try to explain numbers 5 and 6 in your post. What I was trying to say is that God is omnipresent. He can be anywhere at anytime in fact He is everywhere all the time. In saying that God can be the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit all at the same time and God can correspond with Himself so to speak at the same time as well. Why would God want to correspond with Hiself you might ask. God was setting up a system that one day we would be part of it. Let me clarify. The system is where the Father-God is the head and the only way to Him is through the Son, but later in Scripture we find that we are the sons-children of God. Jesus even showed us how to pray and He did not say ok pray dear Jesus please tell the Father ... blah blah blah, but instead Jesus said start by saying Heavenly Father. Then the Holy Spirits role is the Comforter. He is supposed to dwell inside of us, to instill in us the gifs of the Spirit, and then we fine out that He is supposed to pray to God for us. Now wait a minute, Jesus already showed us how to pray why does the Holy Spirit have to pray for us. The Holy Spirit does not pray for us but is rather our interpreter. He not only interprets what we say to God but also what God says to us-Matt 13:11. Now we are flesh, and when we believe in God and are saved and receive His Spirit then we also become spirit. Jesus Christ-The Son-was half flesh and half Spirit so to speak that is to say that His mother was flesh and His Father was spirit. The Son came in the name of God-Jesus-to show us how to live and to be with God and all that other stuff that we need to know and that we can learn from His life here on earth especially the part about how to overcome the flesh which is so hard for most if not all of us at one point in time. But through His example we now know what to do. Now this being so God is all three all at the same time, but the Father is God in Heaven, the Son is our example in whos steps we follow, and the Holy Spirit being God within us as our interpreter and our comforter. And they all share the same name and that is the name of God ... Jesus. As for John 1:1-2. What is the Word? The Word is just as it is said ... The Word. It is the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan. Lets look at this in Scripture ... In the begining was God's plan, and God's plan was with God and God's plan was God-to say that God included Himself in His plan to be our Father-The same-God's plan-was in the begining with God. If you look down in verse 14 is says, "And the Word-God's plan-was made flesh-as to say that God's plan is now coming into effect and it is coming to pass-and dwelt among us-as to say now is where we come into the plan and take part in the Kingdom of Heaven by taking the possition of the children of God-(and we beheld his glory the glory AS OF the only beggotten of the Father)-which is to say that now we realize the glory and magnificence of God's perfect will or plan just like we realized the glory of God which was manifested through His only beggotten Son-full of grace and truth-God's plan is full of grace and truth just like the Son of God was full of grace and truth. |
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5 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | Reformer Joe | 55499 | ||
Hey, I appreciate your response, but use of paragraphs would make it much easier to follow. You wrote: "In saying that God can be the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit all at the same time and God can correspond with Himself so to speak at the same time as well." It would be more than corresponding with Himself. It would be sending Himself, mediating between us and Himself, interceding for us before Himself, presenting us to Himself as righteous, being on the throne and at the right hand of Himself at the same time, giving His people to Himself, being a object of His own wrath, being the One on the throne giving the book to Himself as the Lamb before the throne in Revelation 5, and on and on and on. If the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all really Jesus Christ, He sure seems to go a long way to make Himself look like more than one! You wrote: "The Holy Spirit does not pray for us but is rather our interpreter." That is not what Scripture says: "In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God." --Romans 8:26-27 The Spirit intercedes for the saints, because we DO NOT KNOW how to pray as we should. You wrote: "As for John 1:1-2. What is the Word? The Word is just as it is said ... The Word. It is the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan. Lets look at this in Scripture." Let's. By replacing the word "Word" with "the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan," let's see where that gets us: "In the beginning was [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan], and [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] was with God, and [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] was God." The Bible was God? Prophecy was God? God's plan was God? "[The Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan], and apart from [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] nothing came into being that has come into being. The universe did not come into existence apart from the Bible and prophecy? "In [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] was life, and the life was the Light of men." So [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] is the Word, and now we must conclude that it is the life and the Light of men. So let's take this further. "[The Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan], to them [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Seems pretty unlikely. This is the clincher: "And [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John testified about [the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, '[the Bible, prophecy, God's will, God's perfect plan] who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" Does this really make sense to you? All of John 1 is talking about the Word, Jesus Christ, who was with God in the beginning and at the same time was God. There is no other logical understanding of this chapter. --Joe! |
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6 | IS TONGUES FOR TODAY? | 1 Cor 14:5 | HamsteRulz | 55832 | ||
Now the reason why I used that deffinition was because that was the Greek/Hebrew meaning of the word "Word". But we can use your deffinition and get the same meaning. Though our conversations I have come to realize that the main difference between Trinitarianism and Oneness is that Trinitarian believes that there were three way back when whereas Oneness believes there was only one then when the New Testament came along that one was manifested three ways. Now if we were to take your deffinition of the Word and say that the Word is Jesus then tell me how can Jesus exist if He were the only BEGOTTEN son of God meaning that He was BORN of God? Jesus could not have possibly existed until the New Testament when He was born. Allow me to explain this belief. I am going to pose this as a question because I myself have not done personal study on this like I should have and because of this conversation it has earged me to do so. Could it be that the Word that John was talking about be the name Jesus? Cause think about it if it were Jesus that is the name of God. In the begining it was God. Then later in the chapter we see where this Name was given flesh werein it could reveal the true image of God. Now like I said it is just a question. My grandfather was Trinitarian until he studied this chapter and now he believes in the Oneness of God. I will have a talk with him and others as well as doing my own personal research on this then I will come back to you with a deffinite answer but right now I am just posing a question. |
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