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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Searcher56 | 14016 | ||
Matthew 22:14 says, "For many are called, but few are chosen." Is the a contradiction, or how do these verses fit together? | ||||||
2 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Makarios | 14055 | ||
"Now we come to Paul’s point, made in part in this verse. Despite the present reality of suffering (although God through his Spirit is in it with us), God will work history for good for everyone who loves God. These “who love God” are those who are the “called,” for it is not just the Jewish people who are called, but everyone who hears and responds to the gospel. Christians are not simply called and then dropped or forgotten about, but called in accordance with God’s purpose, which is God’s plan in history. Paul has already referred to this grand purpose in Romans 8:18-25: God has a future hope for Christians, and not only for Christians, but also for the whole of the creation. However painful the present may be, it is part of God’s grand plan to redeem human beings from sin, to spread the gospel throughout the earth and to bring his redemption to those human beings who turn to him and to the creation itself. Another way of putting this is that those whom God foreknew he predestined to be like his Son. The idea of knowing a person in Hebraic thought (in which Paul was immersed) is that of coming into relationship with a person (Gen 18:19; Ps 1:6; Jer 1:3; Hos 13:5; Amos 3:2; or, negatively, Mt 7:23). Now we find out that it is not simply the physical children of Abraham with whom God has come into a relationship, but all of those who love God. Therefore the idea of “foreknew” is to come into a relationship with someone before some point in time. This “coming-into-relationship-before” can mean one of two things: (1) God chose this relationship with believers before they ever existed, for he has worked through the whole course of history for the salvation of such people and (2) God chose them as a group before they existed, for he also formed them and sent the gospel to them. Yet, whichever of the two is the focus of Paul’s concern, it is not only that God chose them, but that he also has a plan for them, which is to be like his Son. Unfortunately for their comfort, this includes not only the glory of his Son, but also the sufferings of his Son. Thus Christians’ present sufferings for Jesus have a purpose: to make them like Jesus. In the next verse Paul will mention other benefits: how those who love God were called through the gospel, justified through the death of Christ and are certainly to be glorified when Christ returns. Thus Paul is not answering our question about predestination at all. He is writing in a book addressed to the church in Rome. This means the letter is addressed to people who were already Christians. He is in the middle of a section where he has been talking about the sufferings of the Christian life. Now he is telling them the purpose of these sufferings. However unpleasant they may be (and given what non-Christians thought about Christians in the culture, they may have been very unpleasant indeed), these sufferings do not mean that God has forgotten them. “On the contrary,” Paul says, “when you were called in the gospel, it was part of a plan of God. That plan was not to leave you as you were. No, God, according to his plan, entered into relationship with you in order to make you like Jesus. Part of that, of course, is suffering, but the other part is glory. So when the plan is complete you will stand before God fully justified and gloried, in the very image of his Son.” That is why in Romans 8:31-39 we get the exclamations of praise to God. Christians have not fallen out of his hand; even when they do not see him, he is bringing them on toward his glorious purpose for them. So what is God saying about predestination? All those who love God are predestined. God has a previously thought-out plan for them. And that plan is to make them like Jesus. In this security every lover of God can rest, even if their present life seems full of pain and chaos." Taken from "Hard Sayings of the Bible" |
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3 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Morant61 | 14056 | ||
Greetings Nolan! Here is an interesting concept for you to consider. The word "proginosko" is only used by Paul twice in the entire New Testament, in Rom. 8:29 and 11:2. In Rom. 11:2, the word is clearly a reference to Israel. So, why does almost every commentator consider the word in 8:29 to be a reference to individual Christians? The context makes even better sense, if Paul is talking about Israel. The Old Testament quote in Rom. 8:36 is taken from Psalm 44:22. The passage, in context, says: ************************************* Psalm 44: We have heard with our ears, O God; our fathers have told us what you did in their days, in days long ago. 2 With your hand you drove out the nations and planted our fathers; you crushed the peoples and made our fathers flourish. 3 It was not by their sword that they won the land, nor did their arm bring them victory; it was your right hand, your arm, and the light of your face, for you loved them. 4 You are my King and my God, who decrees victories for Jacob. 5 Through you we push back our enemies; through your name we trample our foes. 6 I do not trust in my bow, my sword does not bring me victory; 7 but you give us victory over our enemies, you put our adversaries to shame. 8 In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. Selah 9 But now you have rejected and humbled us; you no longer go out with our armies. 10 You made us retreat before the enemy, and our adversaries have plundered us. 11 You gave us up to be devoured like sheep and have scattered us among the nations. 12 You sold your people for a pittance, gaining nothing from their sale. 13 You have made us a reproach to our neighbors, the scorn and derision of those around us. 14 You have made us a byword among the nations; the peoples shake their heads at us. 15 My disgrace is before me all day long, and my face is covered with shame 16 at the taunts of those who reproach and revile me, because of the enemy, who is bent on revenge. 17 All this happened to us, though we had not forgotten you or been false to your covenant. 18 Our hearts had not turned back; our feet had not strayed from your path. 19 But you crushed us and made us a haunt for jackals and covered us over with deep darkness. 20 If we had forgotten the name of our God or spread out our hands to a foreign god, 21 would not God have discovered it, since he knows the secrets of the heart? 22 Yet for your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. 23 Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever. 24 Why do you hide your face and forget our misery and oppression? 25 We are brought down to the dust; our bodies cling to the ground. 26 Rise up and help us; redeem us because of your unfailing love. ****************************** Isn't it interesting that this Psalm has Israel asking God not to reject them. While, Rom. 9-11 makes the argument that God hasn't rejected them. This is a good example of where I think many are guilty of approaching Romans as a collection of sayings and failing to consider the context, especially of the Old Testament quotes that Paul uses to make his arguments. The quotes give a clear indication that God's purpose in election is to work through Israel in such a way that He might have mercy on all men (Rom. 11:32). Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Makarios | 14057 | ||
Greetings Tim! Yes, I knew that if I continued in Romans here with Steve that you might have something excellent to contribute! :) I have read somewhere that the book of Romans is a book that should be read through continuously.. I agree with your analysis of Israel and election. However, I tend to agree more with the commentators in stressing that Romans 8:29 could be taken as referring to individual Christians, since the book of Romans was written to Gentiles even though Paul is clearly using Israel as an example in 11:2. Also, the word "proginosko" is used here by Paul in Rom. 8:29 and 11:2. However, the word "proginosko" is also used by Luke in Acts 26:5 and by Peter twice- in 1 Peter 1:20 and 2 Peter 3:17 according to Strong's Greek Dictionary... In Acts 26:5, the reference is clearly to the Jews. In 1 Peter 1:20, the reference is clearly to Christ. In 2 Peter 3:17, the reference is clearly to the church. Since the word "proginosko" is used here to refer to at three different persons in the NT, then I see a little more "room" here for an interpretation of Romans 8:29 to be applied to something other than Israel, or individual Christians. Excellent study my friend! --Nolan |
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5 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Morant61 | 14087 | ||
Greetings Steve! Thanks! Like I said to Joe, I too think that Romans 8 applies to believers as well. I just believe that Paul is using "those whom God foreknew" in a technicule sense for Israel. I realized it was used a few more times by other writers, but generally I try to limit a word study to a particular author, since other authors may use words differently. Years ago, I did a major paper in college on Rom. 9-11. While researching it, I came across a reference to a commentator who believed that "proginosko" was being used as a title for Israel. His name was Black. However, I was never able to find the book where he discussed it in more detail. Other than that one reference, I have never heard anyone else make the connection between 8:28 and 11:2. I liked your observation about reading Romans through. I have always been dissatisfied with the view that Romans is simply a compendium of Paul's theology. It always seemed much more occasional than that. I found one author recently who commented that the questions in Rom. 3 are answered in Rom. 9. Personally, I beleive that Romans 1-11 must be studied as a unit. Keep up the good work! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Makarios | 14133 | ||
Hello Tim! Did you write this to Steve or to me? Just wondering, my friend.. :) --Nolan |
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