Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | time | Acts 1:3 | Sctt | 43617 | ||
Hi Tim welcome, 2Pet.3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. You state that those that originaly read Gen. would not understand a principle not revealed until 2Pet. But I beleave the people of old did understand this princilpe,because Peter say be not ignorant of this one thing. Ignorant has this meaning 1. lanthano (2990), “to escape notice,” is translated “they (wilfully) forget” in 2 Pet. 3:5, rv, lit., “this escapes them (i.e., their notice, wilfully on their part),” kjv, “they willingly are ignorant of”; in v. 8, rv, “forget not,” lit., “let not this one thing escape you” (your notice), kjv, “be not ignorant of W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger and William White, Vine’s complete expository dictionary of Old and New Testament words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996. So they are told not to willfuly forget that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,and a thousand years as one day.Now to willfully forget something would mean we had to know it to begin with. Now as conserning Jeremiah this was the priest and prophets and all the people that said unto Jeremiah thou shalt surely die. They said this because they didn't like what Jeremiah prophesied unto them. God keeps safe his own, and God was not done with Jeremiah. If it was God that said because you have prophisied falsely you are going to die ,well then goodbye Jeremiah. God keeps life and takes life as He sees fit,not as men do. As to Jonathan Saul would have killed him but the people withstood him,because God by Jonathans hand won the day. So you see it was because of God that Jonathan was not killed,for if God had allowed the battle to be lost Jonathan would have been killed by Saul,because the people would have thought that the battle was lost because Jonathan unnowingly went agaist Saul command. Now as you say it was a death sentance placed upon Adam this I can agree to ,but Adam still died before the 1000 years was up. Question: you take a litteral stance on day but when it come to the day of Adam death you take a spiritual stance. How come? As said before I take both a litteral and a spiritual stance. One more thought in Gen.2:4 it say These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769. Now these generations (all six days of Gods creative work)are said to be in the Day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. Now if God says all six days of creation are a day whos to say how long a day realy is? In Christ Scott |
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2 | time | Acts 1:3 | Morant61 | 44237 | ||
Greetings Scott! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you! I've been very busy! The quote is used in one possible explanation. I'm not sure I totally accept it, but it does make sense. My only problem with your position is that if this 1000 years/1 day principle is so well known, why is it only mentioned in two verses in the entire Bible? Further, you still haven't dealt with the fact that the verses are similies, not statements of fact. Peter doesn't say that a 1000 years is a day. He says that a 1000 years is LIKE a day with the Lord. I just don't see enough support for this view, nor the need. Concerning Gen. 2:4, 'beyom' is simply an idiom for 'when'. So, Gen. 2:4 isn't saying that all six days occurred in one day. I think that I take both a literal and a spiritual view as well. I just don't believe that literal means that Adam had to die on the day that he ate of the fruit. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | time | Acts 1:3 | Sctt | 44263 | ||
Hi Tim you say 2pet.3:8 is a similie but the jews took this as fact not as a similie I let John Gill explain this as had far greater access then I to what the Jews believed. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing…Here the apostle addresses the saints he writes unto, and for whom he had a tender affection and regard, and for whose welfare he was concerned, lest they should be stumbled at the length of time since the promise of the coming of Christ was given, and which these scoffers object; and therefore he would have them know, observe, and consider this one thing, which might be of great use to them to make their minds easy, and keep up their faith and expectation of the coming of Christ: that one day (is), with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day; referring either to (Psalms 90:4) ; or to a common saying among the Jews,founded on the same passage, (Mynv Pla hb "qh) (lv wmwy) , "the day of the holy blessed God is a thousand years" F26; suggesting, that though between thirty and forty years had elapsed since the promise was given out that Christ would come again, and should even a thousand, or two thousand years more, run off, before the coming of Christ, yet this should be no objection to the accomplishment of the promise; for though such a number of years is very considerable among men, ye not "with God", as the Arabic and Ethiopic versions read, with whom a thousand years, and even eternity itself, is but as a day, (Isaiah 43:13) . Unless this phrase should be thought to refer, as it is by some, to the day of judgment, and be expressive of the duration of that: it is certain that the Jews interpreted days of millenniums, and reckoned millenniums by days, and used this phrase in confirmation of it. Thus they say F1, in the time to come, which is in the last days, on the sixth day, which is the sixth millennium, when the Messiah comes,for the day of the holy blessed God is a thousand years. And a little after, "the Lord hath created a new thing in the earth, a woman shall compass a man". This is in the time of the Messiah which is in the sixth day.And elsewhere F2, the sixth degree is called the sixth day, the day of the holy blessed God is a thousand years. And in that day the King Messiah shall come, and it shall be called the feast of gathering, for the holy blessed God will gather in it the captivity of his people. So they call the sabbath, or seventh day, the seventh millennium, and interpret F3 "the song for the sabbath day", (Psalms 92:1) title, for the seventh millennium, for one day of the holy blessed God is a thousand years. To which agrees the tradition of Elias, which runs thus F4; it is the tradition of the house of Elias, that the world shall be six thousand years, two thousand years void (of the law), two thousand years the law, and two thousand years the days of the Messiah; for they suppose that the six days of the creation were expressive of the six thousand years in which the world will stand; and that the seventh day prefigures the last millennium, in which will be the day of judgment, and the world to come; for the six days of the creation (they say F5) is a sign or intimation of these things: on the sixth day man was created; and on the seventh his work was finished; so the kings of the nations of the world (continue) five millenniums, answering to the five days, in which were created the fowls, and the creeping things of the waters, and other things; and the enjoyment of their kingdom is a little in the sixth, answerable to the creation of the beasts, and living creatures created at this time in the beginning of it; and the kingdom of the house of David is in the sixth millennium, answerable to the creation of man, who knew his Creator, and ruled over them all; and in the end of that millennium will be the day of judgment, answerable to man, who was judged in the end of it; and the seventh is the sabbath, and it is the beginning of the world to come. As to the word beyom: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (beyom) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.… Here day refers to the entire period envisioned in the first six days of creation W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger and William White, Vine’s complete expository dictionary of Old and New Testament words (computer file), electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996. In Christ Scott |
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4 | time | Acts 1:3 | Morant61 | 44302 | ||
Greetings Scott! Even if the Jews believed this, the issue is what does the Bible teach! :-) The Jews believed, and still believe, some strange things. There are still two problems with this view. 1) Both verses use a similie. 2) There are only two verses which even mention this tidbit! It would take much better evidence than this to convice me. But, I appreciate your response my friend! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | time | Acts 1:3 | Sctt | 44437 | ||
Hi Tim you say Even if the Jews believed this, the issue is what does the Bible teach? First off we can learn alot about what the OT teaches from the Jews , because unto them it was given. It is in the NT that the Jews come to their greatest error,not believeing that Jesus Christ is the Massiah. Now saying this I'm not saying that they didn't have a wrong interpitation of the scriptures sometimes,they were men such as we ourselves are. You also write There are still two problems with this view. 1)That they are a similie. You state that it is a similie because it uses the word AS and you take it to mean LIKE, but whenever it is used with numeral the word signifies ABOUT. hos (5613) usually means “as.” Used with numerals it signifies “about,” e.g., Mark 5:13; 8:9; John 1:40; 6:19; 11:18; Acts 1:15; Rev. 8:1 W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger and William White, Vine’s complete expository dictionary of Old and New Testament words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996.So if you read 2Pet.3:8 with the word about instead of like this does away with the similie,and back up what the Jews believe conserning time. 2)You say that the other problem is that there are only two verses which even mention this tidbit! This may be so ,but if it was only mentioned once in the bible I would believe it. I have always found that if something is written in the OT you can find it in the NT , and vice versea.For the OT point to the NT and the NT refers to the OT.And when you find it in both the OT and the NT they become witnesses one of another , and no to better witnesses can I find. May the Blessings of God the Father, Christ the son,and the Holy Spirit be upon us all amen.Scott |
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6 | time | Acts 1:3 | Morant61 | 44447 | ||
Greetings Scott! Good quote! But, I don't think it applies to 2 Peter 3:8 for the following reasons. 1) Vine himself doesn't list the verse as an example of 'about'. 2) The verses where 'about' fits all have the format 'hos plus number'. The first phrase of 2 Peter 3:8 would fit, but not the second phrase. It says 'hos hemera mia'. Thus, 'as a day one' would be the translation, not 'about one day'. This is evidenced by the fact that not one translation translates this verse as 'about one day'. 3) Finally, the context of the passage would argue against 'hos' meaning 'about'. Peter uses this word in verses 8, 9, 10, and 16. The other three occurances clearly mean 'as', so it would be unusual to use 'hos' in a different manner in the same passage. Regardless though, this point doesn't seem to support your position. You are arguing that a day is a 1,000 years, not about a 1,000 years! :-) This isn't a big issue my friend. I just don't accept this view based on only two references, especially when both references are similies. I just believe that if God wanted to let us know this detail, He would have done so in a declarative statement, not a similie. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | time | Acts 1:3 | Sctt | 44706 | ||
Hi Tim heres a couple of other translation for concideration.The Jerusalem Bible But there is one thing,my friends, that you must never forget: that with the Lord,a day can mean a thousand years,and a thousand years is like a day. Interlinear Geek and English NT revised Standard Version and Zondervan Parallel NT Greek and English both read But this one thing let not be concealed from you,beloved that one day with the lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as day one. Now this may not say that a thousand years is a day ,but it does show that God veiws time differant then we do. When I said that a thousand years was a day I was in error as I was making the same mistake I believe that those who say a day is a day and thats all it is ,is making.You cannot put a time limit on the why God looks at a day,it my be 24hrs,in one place,1000yrs in another,or even greater or lesser periods of time. Therefore when you state that a day is 24hrs in Gen. you are putting on God a time table that man relates to,not God. The word day come from the Hebrew word YOWM(stong's lexicon)Now for those that take yowm to be 24hrs in Gen. have to take it to be 24hrs in other books of the bible also.If you don't to my way of thinking you are only tring to make it fit with what you believe not to what the scriptures actualy say.It was because of the study of the word yowm that I seen my error in holding God to a thousand years, one day pricipal,but with God a day can be either longer or shorter then a thousand years,I for one will not hold Him to a thousand years much less a 24hr day. Here are some of the scriptures I came across to change my way of thinking.NU.20:15 How our fathers went down into Egypt, and we have dwelt in Egypt a long time(yowm); and the Egyptians vexed us, and our fathers:here we have a 400yr day. 1Sa.7:2And it came to pass, while the ark abode in Kirjathjearim, that the time(yowm) was long; for it was twenty years: and all the house of Israel lamented after the LORD.Here we have a 20yr day. 1Ki.11:42And the time(yowm) that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years. 40yr day.1Ch.29:2727And the time(yowm) that he reigned over Israel was forty years; seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem.7year plus 33year day.There are others I could quote but this shoul be sufficent to show that no one knows how long a day is with God. Now lets look at evening and morning for in Gen.1:5 these two words make a day.You believe it to be 24hrs but read Da.8:14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days(evening and morning); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.Here we have a evening and morning that is 2300days.Do these not all show that a day(yowm)is 24hrs,and much more then 24hrs. Only God knows his time table and if we limit him by our understanding of time we do Him a great diservies by making Him conform to us and not us to Him.In Christ Scott |
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8 | time | Acts 1:3 | Morant61 | 44745 | ||
Good morning Scott! Good points my friend! I don't think there is any doubt that 'yom' can mean many different lengths of time. Usually though, the context indicates how long a period is being discussed. You are right though my friend that I think the context of 'evening and morning' in Gen. 1:5 defines the length of 'yom'. I'm not sure of your point with Dan. 8:14. Wouldn't 2,300 'evenings and mornings' be 2,300 days? By the way, I am a firm believer in the 'timelessness' of God! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | time | Acts 1:3 | Sctt | 44766 | ||
Hi Tim I'm not sure of your point with Dan. 8:14. Wouldn't 2,300 'evenings and mornings' be 2,300 days? The word days comes from the same word evening and morning in Gen1:5. so it would follow that if evening and morning is one day,then the evening and morning here is 2300years. If you use the word days as evenings and mornings are you not making the evening and morning in Gen.1:5 evenings and mornings as they come from the same Hebrew words evening (ereb)morning(boqer).If you do it would read ...And the evenings and the mornings were the first day.I hope I you can understand what i'm trying to say because sometime I have a hard time expressing my thoughts on paper.In Christ Scott. | ||||||
10 | time | Acts 1:3 | Morant61 | 44800 | ||
Greetings Scott! I think we all have a hard time at times! :-) Short forums answers make it difficult, especially on complex issues. But, I'm still not following you. So, let me lay out my understanding of the verse to clarify where I'm coming from. Neither the word 'day' nor the word 'year' are used in Dan. 8:14. The text simply says 2,300 evenings and mornings. The most common assumption is that this refers to 2,300 days. The NET BIBLE says of this verse: " The language of evenings and mornings is reminiscent of the creation account in Genesis 1. Since ?evening and morning? is the equivalent of a day, the reference here would be to 2,300 days. However, some interpreters understand the reference to be to the evening sacrifice and the morning sacrifice, in which case the reference would be to only 1,150 days. Either way, the event that marked the commencement of this period is unclear. The event that marked the conclusion of the period is the rededication of the temple in Jerusalem following the atrocious and sacrilegious acts that Antiochus implemented. This took place on December 25, 165 b.c. The Jewish celebration of Hannukah each year commemorates this victory." So, it appears to me that this is one more verse where 'evening and morning' defines a day. Which lends further support that 'yom' in Gen. 1-2 refers to a normal day, since it is modified by 'evening and morning'. You seem to be saying that one 'evening and morning' in either 2,300 days long or 2,300 years long. But, the text never says either. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | time | Acts 1:3 | Sctt | 44811 | ||
Hi Tim Da.8:14 4And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Reads Unto two thousand and three hundred evening(ereb)and morning(boqer). Gen.1:5 And the evening and the morning were the first day. or the evening(ereb)and the morning(boqer) were the first day.Now if you say that the evening and the morning in Da.8:14 is evenings and mornings you also have to say that the evening and the morning in Gen.1:5 is evenings and mornings because they have the same meanings (ereb) and (boqer).No matter how you look at it the day is much more then 24hrs. As I have already said God showed me that I was putting a limit of time on Him by making a day a thousand years,you to fall into this error by making a day a 24hr day. When we make the day in Gen.1:5 a 24hr day we are making Gods word conform to our idea of what a day is instead of comforming to Gods idea of a day is. Which no man can tell for God dwells without time. Also remember that the sun,moon and stars were not created till the forth day,and that these were given for days ,seasons,years etc.now because these were not given till the forth day this shows us that God did not look at a day as 24hrs or He would have created them on the first day. to me this is a clear statement that God did created the days in His time and not our understanding of time. Therefore if you make it a 24hr day you make God dwell in time and we know that He does not,for He is timeless.I hope youcan see my meaning because as God is timeless we cannot restrict Him to the time it took to create the world. If it took Him 10,000,000yrs to Him it would be but a day.God bless,you brother in the Lord Scott |
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