Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why do so few Scriptures mention baptism | Matt 7:13 | Morant61 | 8823 | ||
Greetings Sharp! Thanks for the response! Here lies the concern that I think most on the forum, including myself, have. Scripture makes it very clear that salvation is by faith, not faith plus baptism. So I ask my original questions about Acts 2:38 again! I would appreciate it if you would respond to these original points: I have been following this thread with interest. Is baptism a necessary for salvation? You seem to be arguing that it is based upon Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, ‘‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Thus, you must be taking the phrase "for the forgiveness of your sins" as expressing the result of repentance and baptism. However, there are three very good reasons to avoid this interpretation of this verse. 1) The rest of Scripture does not make baptism necessary for salvation, including Acts. Consider the following verses from Acts where forgiveness is mentioned and notice that not one of them links forgiveness with baptism. a) Acts 5:31 - "God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel." b) Acts 10:43 - "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." c) Acts 13:38-39 - ‘‘Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses." d) Acts 26:18 - "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." Notice that none of these other verses in Acts tie baptism in with the forgiveness of sins. If baptism were essential to salvation, you would think that it would be mentioned in these other verses as well. 2) There are reasons to believe that "for the forgiveness of sins" does not express result, but rather expresses the ground or reason for baptism. The preposition translated as ‘for’ in Acts 2:38 is sometimes used in this way. Consider the following examples and notice that two of them involve baptism (additional evidence that Acts 2:38 should be translated as "on the basis or grounds of the forgiveness of your sins): a) Matthew 3:11 - "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." b) Matthew 12:41 - "The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here." Allow me to address Mt. 12:41 first. The phrase "repented at the preaching of Jonah" uses the same preposition (eis) as does Acts 2:38. Obviously, the preaching of Jonah was the basis of their repentance, not the other way around. The other example illustrates the same thing and it involves baptism. In Mt. 3:11, baptism did not produce repentance. Rather, repentance was the grounds for baptism. 3) Finally, there is evidence in Acts 2:38 that the middle clause (involving baptism) may be a parenthetical statement. The command to repent is plural. The command to be baptized is singular. This would seems to indicate some break in the chain of thought. If this is the case, the phrase "for the remission of sins" may not even belong with the command to be baptized. No one would debate with you that baptism is important to a believer. However, I just can’t see that baptism is necessary for salvation. There are only a couple of debated Scriptures that even seem to make that case, while the vast majority of Scriptures make it abundantly clear that salvation is through faith alone. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Why do so few Scriptures mention baptism | Matt 7:13 | sharp | 8982 | ||
I never said baptism produces repentance, it follows repentance. Maybe we should take a step back. Is repentance essential to salvation? Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (John baptized with water) And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;(John baptized with water) 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Paul's testimony-And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Col. 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.(Repentance is our death) Saving faith is obedience in action. James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. (are devils saved?) 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Sharp |
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3 | Why do so few Scriptures mention baptism | Matt 7:13 | Morant61 | 9018 | ||
Greetings Sharp! I'm really not trying to be a wise guy, but would you clarify what you were trying to say in your last post? The only part I really followed was your first paragraph. You said: "I never said baptism produces repentance, it follows repentance. Maybe we should take a step back. Is repentance essential to salvation?" I never said that you thought baptism produced repentance. What you seem to be saying, based on Acts 2:38, is that repentance plus baptism produces salvation! But, I like your idea of taking a step back, so let me summarize where I stand on this issue. When someone repents, they are saved - Rom. 10:13. This salvation is not earned in any way. It is based entirely upon the completed work of Christ at Calvary. If we stopped at this point, that person would still be completely and totally saved. This is what I mean when I say that baptism is not essential to salvation. I don't mean that baptism is unimportant or unnecessary. I simply mean that baptism does not in any way contribute to our salvation. After a person is saved, that person has an obligation to obey Christ and Scripture. That person should be baptized. That person should read their Bible. That person should attend church. That person should pray. That person should share their faith with others. However, none of these activities make them a Christian. This is the point that I have been trying to get a clear answer about. Do you believe that baptism is essential to salvation? If a person is not baptized, are they still saved? To say that baptism is essential to salvation makes Eph. 2:8-9 false. If you will clarify the point of your last post, I will try to respond better. Thanks for the discussion and your sweet spirit! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Why do so few Scriptures mention baptism | Matt 7:13 | sharp | 9039 | ||
My main point is John the Baptist who as the for runner of Christ was " To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins," according to Luke 1:77 linked remission of sins with baptism. As peter did on the day of Pentecost and Paul said of his conversion when Annias told him to arise and be baptised, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. There are enough scriptures that mention baptism and when understood we know when a referance would include it when not mentioned specifically. The epistles are letters to believers, therefore everything would not need be spelled out every time. To get the complete story of Paul's we have to compare every account that is given in the scriptures, it is different with any other subject or topic that we study in the Bible. When some says their going somewhere they normally do not take time mention every detail of the process because thy are generally understood.(get in car, start car, put car in gear, ect.) We must grasp what the scriptures mean by works, (the bible says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling) because we do not earn salvation nor do we keep it by works. I have no problem with Eph. 2:8-9, grace is the enabling power of God in our lives. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Faith is the gift of God stated here, through indicates action not just mental acceptance. Anything we would try to do to please God our own way would be our works or even scripture based without faith would be vain works. We see Paul speaking in Acts chpt. 26. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. Paul states that he preached right after his conversion that people should repent,turn to God and do works meet for repentance. Sounds like John the Baptist telling the Pharisees to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. I relize the general belief on this forum is against what I stand for but truth is always truth I must proclaim the whole council of God. Sharp |
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5 | Why do so few Scriptures mention baptism | Matt 7:13 | Morant61 | 9055 | ||
Greetings Sharp! Thanks for clarifying your post for me. I do appreciate the discussion and I appreciate your gracious attitude. Obviously we don't see eye to eye on this issue! However, that is what makes debate fun and informative. You shared your position and I shared mine. Unless something new comes up, I guess this would be a good stopping point for this particular discussion. I look forward to interacting with you on other issues. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Why do so few Scriptures mention baptism | Matt 7:13 | sharp | 9098 | ||
Thank you for the discussion. Sharp P.S. My prayer, and I hope everyone's, is that all who get involved with the Word of God follow Paul's directions in 2Tim.2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." |
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