Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Mommapbs | 34655 | ||
Greeting Tim! I tried to answer your question as you presented it however, after reading the following posts, it appears that the issue has become devisive. We are a diverse group with different "convictions" about what is "right." In the end, I want what God wants for me - so drinking is a personal choice based on a conviction of the Holy Spirit. Anytime we try to superimpose what God has given for us upon another, I believe we are entering into the area called "legalism." I have cut a post and altered it to express my views: Quite frankly, if we spent as much time letting Jesus reign in our lives rather than try to control our lives (or the lives of others) by following a bunch of rules, we wouldn’t have the time to engage in legalism. Why do we try to justify something that is so destructive in the lives of so many? Thousands die each year from causes directly related to legalism, thousands die each year from causes indirectly related to legalism. Thousands of innocence lives are destroyed each year by legalism, thousands of innocence lives are destroyed each year indirectly by legalism. Does any of this seem like a good thing? Something we should try to justify? Follow rules if you must but don’t try to justify legalism using the Bible. In the end, I guess we will all have to wait to see what kind of "aged wine" God serves at the Wedding Banquet of the Lamb! Blessings, Mommapbs |
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2 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | EdB | 34658 | ||
Mommapbs With your reasoning then a Christian should be free to use cocaine, crack, sniffing glue, tobacco most anything, all personal choices. To speak against any could be considered knee jerk legalism, and heaven knows as enlightened people we wouldn't want to get tied up in that. 1 Cor. 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? Mommapbs it is your choice to decorate that temple and bring whatever you want into that temple. The Holy Spirit surely won't mind a slight buz Up with freedom down with legalism, oh yea God, You can come along if You find some room to hang on. Call me an old legalist but I had to go to too many funerals, too many hospitals, too many lockups, too many broken homes and talked to too many broken and hurt people to try to justify alcohol in any form. But as a the cry of the world goes if it feels good do it. Don't be bound by those nasty old legalist. Jesus has set you free, and we want to make him proud as WE justify our course through life. I think you hit my buttons :-) EdB |
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3 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Mommapbs | 34670 | ||
Greetings Hank and EdB! Call me an old button pusher! Thanks for your response EdB - You KNOW I was "stirring things up!" Just as alcohol pushes your (justifiably so)hot buttons, legalism pushes mine. I don't believe in "cheap grace." There is a cost of discipleship. Being led by the Spirit is not the same as being led by the letter of the law. Jesus came to set us free from that, to choose to live a life with Him. And yes, as ourbodies are the temples He resides in, we have an awesome responsibility to "decorate" it a way that will be pleasing to Him. Obviously, God's Word is our guide and when we are determined to walk with Him, He will show us what is pleasing or acceptable to Him. I'm not going to condemn a Christian brother or sister because they choose to drink or not drink. Certainly I agree with you that ANY behavior or choice which diminishes the glory of Jesus in me is wrong (but I also include a legalistic attitude here for I experienced the results of this personally) Is the Holy Spirit incapable of showing me what is pleasing to Him? Does he need any help? I think you are pushing the envelope, albeit in jest or not, by suggesting that liberty in Christ is license. Respectfully in Him, Mommapbs |
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4 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | EdB | 34675 | ||
Mommapbs I will try to shelf my past sarcasm on this subject as being unbecomming in a Christian. Let us reason. Would God want to partake of something that has proven to harm the body? Would the Holy Spirit lead us to something detrimental to our well being? Does God or Jesus receive any glory by us partaking? 1 Cor. 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. Now in the above verse we see all things are lawful but not all things are profitable. We know alcohol has adverse effects on the body. Hank listed many of them in his post. If it be not profitable why do it? In fact if it is detrimental why even consider it? Why suggest the Holy Spirit would not prevent us from using it? Back to the verse, “All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.” What has more potential of mastering us that alcohol? As Hank stated in one of his post alcohol and the mastery it has over people have destroyed so many lives, why do we even want to go there? Why would the Holy Spirit not try to keep us from temptation? Why do we try to justify something that is so destructive? To show we have liberty? Tell that to the children whose father won’t be home tonight because of alcohol. To prove the anti-alcohol group wrong at the cost of removing a caution or warning that may have been keeping a person from being involved and destroyed by it? To prove we have been given freedom at the cost of those that are enslaved or may become enslaved to it? To all those that support alcoholic wine what is your reason? Which of the above do you feel is so important you would risk the consequences so evident in the use of alcohol? Help me understand why it is so important that everyone be convinced that the wine of the Bible was alcoholic and therefore we have a virtual go ahead. Why you are convinced that the Holy Spirit would not convict of us of doing something so detrimental to our person and body? Help me understand why alcohol is to be used but cocaine is not. Help me understand why the Holy Spirit would want us to be involved with it. I just don’t see it so please help me see your reason. EdB |
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5 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Reformer Joe | 34683 | ||
Ed: "Would God want to partake of something that has proven to harm the body? Would the Holy Spirit lead us to something detrimental to our well being? Does God or Jesus receive any glory by us partaking?" Yes, bad question, and yes. God receives the glory when we partake of the wine of communion. Until the temperance movement of the 19th century got its claws into the sacrament, wine was used almost exclusively since the first century. And God indeed receives the glory when it is administered rightly. Wine is only detrimental to our well-being when it is used in excess. The same can be said of food. The sin in Scripture is not alcohol use, but alcohol abuse. Might I suggest that our views are a little bit colored by our culture? In Mediterranean countries even today, wine is used as a common beverage just about every day in every family that can afford it. Yes, there are alcoholics there, but there are plenty of people who still partake of wine responsibly. Again, abuse is the sin, not use. Jesus drank wine. Jesus changed water into wine. It was NOT unfermented grape juice. As one of my favorite writers, Douglas Wilson, put it, to claim that the first-century beverage of the Lord's Table was grape juice is as silly as saying that Paul wore a necktie when he preached. You write: "Help me understand why it is so important that everyone be convinced that the wine of the Bible was alcoholic..." Because it is the truth. What amazes me is the Herculean attempts to make it seem as if it weren't fermented. Why is it so important that everyone be convinced that the wine of the Bible WASN'T alcoholic? Now let's be clear: I am not saying that everyone MUST drink alcohol. I rarely drink at all myself. I also acknowledge that there are times when it would be detrimental to drink (not for myself, but for the conscience of another). However, it is an extra-biblical, legalistic sin to forbid the drinking of wine; and I would prefer to use wine in communion, simply because it is what Christ consecrated for the celebration. "Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." --1 Corinthians 10:31 --Joe! |
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6 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Mommapbs | 34697 | ||
Well stated Reformer Joe! I'm getting weary of this discussion. Mommapbs |
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