Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | EdB | 34835 | ||
Joe I respond in disregard of my better judgement. You accuse me of switching subjects to prove a point? No one has ever said there wasn't intoxicating liquids at the time of Christ. My point is that taking grapes and crushing them will not on their own turn into high test alcohol you are promoting, that is fact whether you or anyone else wants to admit that. I'm also saying the technology of the time did not exist that would allow grapes to naturally ferment without going bad. Fermentation today is done in a very controlled environment, and for a very good reason. Just a few spores will contaminate the mix. Everything is sterilized and washed and rewashed. Distilled water is used, specialized and developed yeast are added. Many mixing rooms are entered through air locks, the workers wear sterile clothing and rubber gloves. The gases are expelled through water locks so air will not be able to contaminate the mix. Even then a mix goes bad from time to time. Using the argument that Jews did this intentionally to preserve the fruit of the vine is without basis, and simply man’s justification for a fact that is not true. The fact are even if they could make high test alcohol which they couldn’t without the right preservatives or very controlled conditions it would continue to turn to vinegar in a short period of time. Ask any wine connoisseur that has kept a bottle of vintage only to find they have been keeping vinegar. That stands whether you agree of not. To preserve the wine for any length of time the Jews dehydrated the juice and made a thick paste or carried the process even further and created a dry film much like fruit roll ups of today. Alcohol is considered a toxin, and you want me to furnish proof it isn’t good for the body. Look up the definition of toxin. Alcohol is also a control substance, I wonder why? To make a comparison between food and alcohol is like comparing steak and arsenic, surely you don’t think that is very convincing. As for foreign countries believe me every argument you hold for alcoholic wine can easily be down played by that example. Drink the wine of the common Mediterranean family and I can assure you will have case of what is common called travelers malady in other words you won’t be needing exlax. Yet that is a primary point of your argument for having alcoholic wine killing all the bugs. Sorry it doesn’t fly. Does the church and its rules restrain? Yes! In fact I think that is what it is called to do. Be the salt of the world. I would think we would be abdicating our role to do anything less. Something you may want to ponder. Yes you are naive in the fact you think that you can use your God given abilities of debate to manipulate common sense or change fact. I hate Pharisaic legalism as much if not more than you. But I see no logical reason to throw gas onto a fire, especially when the facts don't support the cause. You say Jesus consecrated the use of alcoholic wine? Would you show me where, proving without a shadow of doubt and without question that he was in fact talking about alcoholic wine. I don’t think you can. Therefore why promote alcohol by continuing this thread. Is it to prove you have liberty? Yes you have! Now get on with it. Is it to convince me when there is absolutely no need I should drink wine? Is it to convince me something classified as a toxin and a controlled substance is good? Is it to convince me it is God’s highest and best for a Christian to drink alcohol? My point is when there is so much to lose and so little to gain what your point for supporting alcohol in the Bible? I would say to Tim I have nothing to discuss with you. Anyone that feels an obligation of instructing your child in the proper way to imbibe is to my point of view beyond any reasonable discussion. I stand in shock of a Christian of saying I’m teaching my kid how to drink. EdB |
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2 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Tim Sheasby | 35309 | ||
I live in the winemaking region of South Africa. I emailed the winemaker at one of our local wineries and here is the content of her reply. Dear Sir Thank you for your enquiry. The first person is correct - you can make a wine with an alcohol level of max 15 from natural grapes without adding sugar or alcohol, but it will be quite dry. The natural sugar in the grapes are converted into alcohol in the natural fermentation process. Normally the yeast on the skins ferments very quickly if not cooled and it's not a very good type of yeast to go on, as it happens so quickly that all the processes don't finish and you might still sit with sugars in the wine. (It also smells bad!) That's why we add yeast to control the whole process better. It is also possible to make a reasonably good, sweet wine naturally, but the alcohol will be very low, as I explained - grape sugars turn into alcohol - so the higher the alcohol the lower the sugar content. The only way you'll be able to get high sugar and high alcohol will be if you add either of the two or both, as in Ports and Sherries. I hope this will help you. Kind regards Carina Visser Assitant to Winemaker From a professional wine maker I find that your contention that a strong wine cannot be made from just grapes is unsubstantiated. Teaching our children is the responsibility of every parent. Just like I teach them not to over-indulge in food (gluttony) I am also going to teach them the sin and danger of overindulging in wine (alcohol). At the same time I have no right to condemn what God has not condemned. I will follow Bible guidelines rather than the abstentionist views of many modern churches. In His Service Tim Sheasby |
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3 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | EdB | 35332 | ||
All this person said was true (Although I believe they are a little high on alcoholic content, I remember it being much lower) did you read the part about "it smells bad"? Let me put it a little more graphically it would make a goat puke! Something I would want to sit down with and enjoy my Passover. From the lips of your expert. "It is also possible to make a reasonably good, sweet wine naturally, but the alcohol will be very low, as I explained - grape sugars turn into alcohol - so the higher the alcohol the lower the sugar content." Did you read the part about VERY LOW? What do you want me to do say your expert is wrong? I think this is exactly what I have been saying all along. To make potable wine naturally the alcoholic content would be so low most would consider it non alcoholic. Let this silliness end. If you want to drink fine if you want to use wine in communion fine, you don’t have to justify it to me. Just don't tell me if I use grape juice I'm wrong because the Bible specifies wine. EdB |
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