Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | RAVEN | 34653 | ||
Romans 14 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. The scripture Matt 11:1 that you use in defense proves only what others said about Jesus not what Jesus said about Himself. There were many other accusations made also that were untrue. Read again, it says "and they say". A line has been drawn in the sand and we as Christians should stay away from it and not even get close to it. When you say drink in moderation, how does this look to your other christian or non-christian friends. Suppose they see you do it and then they do it and have a problem with controling it. Then because of your actions you have caused someone to fall (sin). Matthew 18 Jesus Warns of Offenses * "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! The above scripture that says "little ones" is not refering to a child as we think of a child but it means children of God, for it says they believe. Its used the same way in 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Now back to the subject.... You have to accept that Jesus was pure and did nothing wrong and would never have contributed to the wrong doing of one of His followers. 1 Peter 2 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth"; If you belive as you have stated that Jesus drank wine in its alcholic form then you have just blown the whole plan of salvation. Habakkuk 2 "Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness! As I stated the last time the bible does not contradict itself. So therefore we cannot take the scriptures and twist them to fit the lifestyle we want. We must conform to it, not the other way around. 2 Timothy 3 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work |
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2 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Reformer Joe | 34687 | ||
RAVEN: You wrote: "If you belive as you have stated that Jesus drank wine in its alcholic form then you have just blown the whole plan of salvation." No no no. You are assuming here that the drinking of wine had the same stigma in 1st centtury Palestine as it has among the majority of American funadmentalists in the 21st century. that is patently false to draw that conclusion, however. Jesus would not do anything to cause his disciples to stumble; you are absolutely correct there. However, Jesus drinking wine as a meal-time beverage would not have caused his disciples to stumble, because they were not products of our culture. I agree that the Bible does not contradict itself, so let's see what the Psalmist has to say: "He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the labor of man, So that he may bring forth food from the earth, And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart." --Psalm 104:14-15 Wine is a gift from God, just like food. Both can be abused, but it make wine no less God's gift. The sacramental wine of communion, along with the bread, are "the gifts of God for the people of God." Every Scripture that you have cited in support of complete abstinence speaks against drunkenness and not causing another to sin against his conscience. All kinds of behavior could fall into that category. Do you attend the cinema? There are professing Christians who would be scandalized by that. Surely you don't play cards! What? You watch football after church on Sundays? How about healing on the Sabbath, or letting your disciples pick the heads of grain and grind them in their hands on the Sabbath, or not fasting when others think you should? Oops...I was thinking of Someone else there! :) If my drinking around you will cause you to drink against your conscience, then I will not drink around you. But don't be a Pharisee. --Joe! |
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3 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | RAVEN | 34842 | ||
Joe, I would like to say that your feelings about drinking have been noted. But I would also like to say that I did say what has upset you so. It was the inspired word of God, the bible. So I guess you better take it up with the Him. Raven |
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4 | What is 'the fruit of the vine'? | Matt 26:29 | Reformer Joe | 34856 | ||
Raven: I am not upset with the Scripture. Nor am I particularly upset with your personal take on the subject. I am troubled by you applying passages against drunkenness to any amount of drinking simply because that is NOT what Scripture teaches. I am troubled when you insist that Jesus didn't make wine, when it is pretty clear from the text that He did. Therefore, it is not the Bible that causes me concern, but rather your eisegesis. --Joe! |
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