Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30471 | ||
INTERESTING take indeed J-man. I have to ask though, how do you come to your conclusion on the "and afterward" as discussion of the offspring of daughters and sons? The chapter itself in context is about the coming flood and this should tell us the nephilim were pre and post flood. But I shall look deeper into this and not read all the commentaries on this chapter from scholars of past and present to influence my bent. *shalom* D |
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2 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30498 | ||
J-man..I read and reread the chapter...and the verse in question. Namely, vs 4 of chapter 6. "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." 1. "There were giants on the earth in those days,..." The previous 3 verses talk strictly about men multiplying on the earh and daughters were born to them. These sons of God took the daughters as wives. THEN the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be 120 years." (120years can verily be seen as a Grace period for mankind before the flood(His wrath). Before we discount this thought....look carefully at the time it took Noah to build the Ark.) In vs 1-3: He tells us giants were in these days.... are not these days He is speaking the days of men multiplying?? And if we agree that 'sons of God', i.e. from Job 1 are heavenly bodies, then these could very well be the same type. That is if we consider what is stated next in vs 4. 2. "...and also afterward," Afterward of the days that were just spoken of...can we agree? What came after these days that HE speaks of?...the Flood? If so, then these giants (or men as God calls them) came after the flood. HOW? - is what we should be asking.... how did these giants find there way back if Noah and his family were all that was left... was Noah a Nephilim...??? doubtful...veryyy doubtful. 3. "...when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them." In all translations you should find 'children' italicized. The inference of children is there because of the words, 'bore to them'. These children then, 4. "Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." ....the mighty men of old...interesting if we look at Gen 6 as we do Gen 1...an overview of things to be stated later and revealed. You will most likely find most commentaries supporting these mighty men ...Nephilim as they are called..."mighty ones of old" to be of UN-natural origin. With what is said in 2Peter2:4; Jude6,7; Job1:6; Gen3:24(inference of angels taking on human form?) John 8:44, we find out who the father of lies is. Cannot his minions been used to decieve mankind into themselves as being dominate with the stature of these beings?? In 2peter2:4, the word Tartarus is used and not Hades, Hell, Abyss, or any other word. This is the only place that this word is found. Since this is a special place for these special minions of Satan, could they not be put here because of the fact they left thier 'familiar habitat'? And that 'habitat' they left was their heavenly body? I dont believe any of us can stand 'dogmattically' on either side of this issue. We shouldnt - considering its not essential to our salvation. But, you have to admit - this is one of those rare areas that it is nice to share viewpoints. *shalom* D |
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3 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Jesusman | 30700 | ||
Ok? Look at the context again. Beginning with Verse 1, you have the author talking about men, the Lineage of Cain, multiplying on the earth, and that they had daughters. The Sons of God (the Line of Seth) saw that the Daughters of the Line of Cain were beautiful and married them. Because God didn't like this union, he limited the life span to 120 years. Now, to give a time reference, the niphillim are mentioned as being in existance during this time, when the lines of Cain and Seth fused into one line. The children of this union became Mighty men of old and Men of renown. The Niphillim have nothing to do with being the offspring of this union. Angels have nothing to do with it either. Now for the verses you cited. 2 Peter 2:4 just says that Angels left heaven. Which is already known. According to one of the prophets. Satan rebelled, took a third of the angels with him, and God kicked them out. This passage never says anything about angels taking human form and having sex with humans. Jude 1:6-7 I've been waiting for someone to bring this one up. Again, the context isn't looked at closely. The whole context of Jude is about those who have disobeyed God. Verse 7 points out NOT that angels went after strange flesh, but the point is that the angels who disobeyed are going to made examples of just like Sodom and Gamorrah were made examples of. The phrase referring to indulging in strange flesh and gross immorality is talking about Sodom and Gamorrah, NOT the Angels. The reference was only given to remind the readers why Sodom and Gamorrah were destroyed. All that is pertinant to the Angels who rebelled is that they left heaven, and will be punished and made examples of, which is already known in the prophetic passages. It doesn't say anything about angels having sex with humans. John 8:44 merely presents to us who Satan truly is. Genesis 3:24 This talks about the Cherubim who was sent to protect the tree of Life. According to the context, this could be the only Cherubim ever known. On top of that, CHerubims aren't referenced to until the creation of the Ark of the Covenant and Until Daniel. Job 1:6 Again, Angels are mentioned by name. In fact, if you read verses 1-5 of Job 1, you get a totally different picture. That passage talks about feasts, festivals, and worship gatherings. That seems to support my suggestion that the "Sons of God" in verse 6 are humans engaging in the worship of God. I'm sorry, but when you look at these passages in their proper context, the idea that Angels married human females not only sounds rediculous, but is unscriptural as well. Jesus Loves You! Jesusman |
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4 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30743 | ||
Jesusman, Thank you for supporting alot of what I had said earlier, and what you said previous to that. Dare we read Jude 1:6,7 again? Lets do a less than exhaustive study... Let us start with vs 5 which is the beginning of this paragraph in question. v5- "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." v6- "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;" v7- "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vegence of eternal fire." Lets dig now and see what could be AN answer (not The) to the issue at hand. vs 5 - For sake of argument, I wont delve deeper than needed. We are agreed that this verse tells of something already known to the readers; those who did not believe were destroyed. Definitions are from Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. In order to reference in the Vines Dictionary, I need to read from KJV for this verse. 6a- "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,..." "estate" - Pg 207 Notes (5) In Jude 6 'arche', (is defined) principality, Revised Version and KJV 'principality' According to Vines: Pg 488 Last paragraph (arche), In Jude 6, RV, it signifies, not the first estate of fallen angels (as KJV), but their authoritative power, "their own" indicating that which had been assigned to them by God, which they left, aspiring to prohibited conditions. See: Begin. Pg 58 B.Noun - Begin(arche) is defined as a verb - "to be first" 6b- "but left their own habitation,..." "habitation" Vines Dict: Pg 286 1. oiketerion, is used in Jude 6, of the heavenly region appointed by God as the dwelling place of the angels. Would this be a safe variation of v6 ? "And the angels who voluntarily decided to dismiss their authoritative position assigned by God, knowing full well of the prohibitive conditions. They left their dwelling place (heaven). He(God) had these angels reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." v7 - "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner,..." KJV "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE..." NKJV In the NKJV vs6 ends with a semi-colon (;) and verse 7 begins, "as". A semi-colon tells us, co-ordinate clauses having a relationship in meaning not explicity stated are being seperated. I guess you can say, what was just stated is being defined a little bit better. Here in the Bible the writer is using S and G as a point of reference to what was just stated. In the KJV v7 starts out, "Even as" "As" simply defined. Same, just like. so vs7 tells us... "Just like S/G and the cities around them IN LIKE MANNER(KJV)...IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE(NKJV)..." In the New American Standard Bible (NASB), vs7 reads, "Just as S/G and the cities around them, since they as in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." What may we see is being stated here? Did the angels in vs 6 knowing full well the outcome of their exploits leave their original place of authority and their home to partake of the flesh? Or have I "read into" the definitions as laid out by my Vine's Dictionary? In all the versions I have at my disposal(8) the cross references to vs 6 are all the same. 2Pet2:4 1Tim5:21 Job 1:6 Gen3:24 All have one thing in common...Angels. ...Lord dont let me convolute your story... *SHALOM* Discipled |
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5 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Jesusman | 30975 | ||
Hello, I appologize for waiting so long to reply. I have been going over the text in the greek. The context doesn't support your claims entirely. Let me clarify. First there is a pattern to the text of Jude 1:5-7. You have the comment in verse 5 stating that the reader should remember the following events and pay attention to them. Also in verse 5, you have the people of egypt mentioned, their unbelief, and the punishment given. Then we turn to verse 6. IN verse 6, you have the angels, their sin, which was leaving the natural domain, and the punishment, which is that they were chained up for the final judgement. Then you go to verse 7. You have sodom and gamorrah, then the cities surrounding them all listed. the sinful act was that of sexual immorality. The punishment was that of being destroyed. As you can see, there are three separate examples given. Now, for the phrase, "they in the same manner as these ...". If you were to follow the rules of greek grammer strictly, as you should, then it doesn't follow that this phrase is referring to the cities in relation to the angels. Here's why. First, the pattern I mentioned above. The pattern is that a group is mentioned, their sin is listed, their punishment, and the author goes on to the next group. Now what is important is that the author doesn't refer to the group of the previous verse specifically. If he did, then the people of egypt would have been referred to in one form or another in verse 6 as well. As we can see, they are not. Then we turn to the grammer itself. As you know, Greek doesn't follow the same rules of grammer as english, especially in matters of punctuation. Between sodom and gammorrah, all you have is "kai" or "and" in english. there is no other punctuation. However, between Sodom and Gammorah, and the "cities around them", there is punctuation, a coma. This is significant because it separates the two groups, and this separation follows throughout the rest of the verse. Then you have the nature of "toutos" or "these" in english, and the usages in contrasts and comparrisons. "Toutos" will usually refer to one of the groups previously identified earlier, and in matters of comparrison and contrast, there will usually be groups identified. This phrase is a comparrison. We also have two groups in the prior phrase being identified, and separated by punctuation. So, the true meaning of the phrase in question reads, "They (the cities around them), in the same manner as these (Sodom and Gammorrah)...". So, as you can see, the grammer doesn't follow. Jesusman |
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