Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Jesusman | 30125 | ||
Hello tuli, I don't think you clearly understand what I am trying to say. Yes, the Anakim in Numbers and Deuteronomy are humans. That is beyond refuting. However, they are called "niphillim" due to their great size. In the post-flood passages, these giants are called men. However, the pre-flood giants, cannot be the same men due to the flood itself. The only people that survived the flood was Noah, his three sons, and their wives. The only animals to survive were those on the ark. All other life before the flood was destroyed. So, the anakim cannot be the Niphillim of Genesis 6. It is not only biblically impossible, but scientifically impossible as well. Therefore, the Niphillim of Genesis 6, must be either a different group of giant humans or something inhuman that is giant in stature. Now, Genesis 6 does not hint in anyway that the Niphillim are human or not, just that they are there. Also, we must adhere to the science pertaining to this area. Archeology has yet to uncover giant human remains dating back to the period of the Flood. The only remains that are giant in stature that can be found are dinosaurs. Therefore, the Niphillim of Genesis 6 is a totally different group than those of Numbers 13. As a result, Niphillim goes from being a name of a tribe, nationality, or species, to being a term of description, which is the only explaination that fully fits with both usages of "niphillim". As for the usage of Science, Science in it's truest sense is not to contradict the Scripture, but should be used to explain Scripture. Science should not be feared nor shunned but should be used to aid in the study of Scripture. As for Job, again, I'm not sure if you understand what it is that I am trying to convey. Notice in both Job chapter 1 and 2, that the "sons of God" are gathered before God. This can be taken two ways. 1) they are physically in front of God. 2) they are Spiritually in front of God. The most common meaning is the former of the two. However, I believe it is the latter of the two. Just because they are gathered before God in Spirit does not neccessarily conclude that they are there physically as well. Now, if the "sons" are angels, then it is that they are gathered physically before God. However, since angels are never called "sons" directly, then the explaination then turns to those who are directly called "sons", namely human believers. As a result of this shift, the gathering changes from being a physical gathering to being a spiritual gathering, as in worship. We, Christians, do the same thing every sunday morning. We gather ourselves before the Lord to present ourselves before him. So, this is a gathering for Worship. Now, we turn to Job, God, and Satan. Job immediately becomes the topic of the conversation between God and Satan, as if Job is among the worshippers. Now, Satan is physically before God, because they are talking to one another. Job and the other "sons" are spiritually before God. Let me explain this through the use of an analogy. Two high school baseball coaches are talking about the coming game between them. The team of the home team coach is currently practicing on the field. Now, which is more likely? That the home team coach is going to start talking and bragging about his star pitcher with the 95 mph fast ball? Or is the home team coach going to start talking about the pitcher of another team all together? He is going to start talking about his own pitcher who is already in the field showing his stuff. Correct? Well, I think the same thing, or similar at least, is happening in Job 1 and 2. As for Job 38:7, I believe that "morning stars" is in reference to angels. Angels are called stars in other passages throughout the Bible. However, I believe that "sons of God" is still in reference to human believers. For instance, why would the writer say, putting it into meaning, "When the angels sang together, and all the angels shouted for Joy ..."? Sounds repeative, right? Also, there really isn't any precidence in Job for such a repeation in meaning to happen. It doesn't entirely make sense. However, if it were to mean, "when the angels sang together, and all the believers shouted for joy ...", then there would be a clear understanding and less confusion. Also, it would bring emphasis upon the true meaning of the book of Job, that God is supreme over all creation. I hope this clarifies things. Jesus Loves You! Jesusman |
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2 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | stjones | 30147 | ||
Hi, Jesusman; You've presented some interesting and thought-provoking ideas in this thread. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with all of it, so I'll just comment on three things: (1) I liked your observations about Hebrews 1. (2) Psalm 8:4-5 differentiates between "man" and the "son of man" (although that may be a poetic device) and says that man is a little lower than (pick one based on the translation you like) "God", "the angels", or "the heavenly beings". My conclusion based on this brief example and looking at your passages in different translations is that we're not always certain to whom the original words and phrases refer. (3) I think the difficulty above extends to the audience in Job 1 and 2. It seems to me that this was a physical assemblage with God, Satan, and others (they are indeed "angels" in several translations). The only worship attributed to Job is offering sacrifices; there's no sign of any kind of corporate worship similar to Christian worship. To me, God's challenge to Satan is much more meaningful and dramatic (and risky, in a sense) in front of a large audience. Job isn't just the story of the title character's faith in God. It's also the story of God's faith in Job, writ large across the heavens. Just my USD .02 worth. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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3 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Jesusman | 30222 | ||
Hello Steve, As a point of clarity, I use the NASB as my primary translation, unless otherwise noted. I use the NASB due to it's literal accuracy. You brought up Psalms 8 and the idea that angels are superior than man. However, in Hebrews 1:14, we have the statement that angels are to minister the saved. With that in mind, it is important to remember that Jesus is higher in authority than the angels, and that we too will carry the title of "Sons of God" as Jesus carries. As a result, Man is of higher authority than the angles, especially the Saved. I don't remember where it is, and I've been looking all night, but I remember reading a verse that specifically teaches that Man is higher than the angels. Also, in the NASB, man is listed as being below "God" in this passage, not the angels or heavenly beings, which corrosponds to the rest of Scripture. As for Job 1 and 2, and the possibility it being angels, the primary reason why it says "angels of God" in these passages is because one of the copies of the Septuagint has it in there in place of "sons". Still, even if the original text placed "angels" in the text rather than "sons", it still would support the notion that Angels are the "Sons of God", which is the true matter throughout this whole thread. As for the challenge between God and Satan, remember, it was Satan who made the Challenge, not God. God merely permitted it to happen. As for the meeting of God and Satan, and being infront of angels, I have a few questions about that. Satan was kicked out of Heaven and from among the angels. He lost his place in the heavens. If so, then why is he there with them, before God? Besides, the passage says that Satan was among the group, and that he was roaming around upon the earth. Then we have Job becoming the topic of the discussion between them, as if he was right in their line of sight, which would place him with in the gathered group, specifically in chapter one. So, I ask again, if these are angels that are gathered, then why is Job and Satan there? The only explaination is that the group is that of human believers who are worshipping God, and Satan just happens to come near when he is summoned by God. Do you see my point? Jesus Loves You! Jesusman |
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4 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | stjones | 30235 | ||
Hi, Jesusman; We can agree to disagree about translations. Since I don't read ancient Hebrew, I'm not qualified to criticize the translators' conclusions. The best I can do is look for consensus and to accept uncertainty when it can't be found. I don't think there's any question that God issued the challenge: 'The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."' (Job 1:8, NASB) There's no hint that they were already considering or looking at Job. God dangled Job in front of Satan like a fat worm in front of a largemouth bass. He as much as said that Job had rejected Satan ("turning away from evil"). Do you suppose God was suprised when Satan bit? Don't get me wrong. I think the Book of Job reveals God at his best - loving, faithful, slow to anger, quick to bless, almighty, sovereign, and very much the potter, not the clay. I also think there's a tendency to sugar-coat God's role in Job's woes. One has to wonder if Satan would have attacked Job so relentlessly if God had simply remained silent about him. I doubt it. Peace and grace, Steve aka Indiana Jones |
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5 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | Jesusman | 30445 | ||
Hello Steve, Well, I speak from experience when I talk about the NASB being the most literally accurate translation to date. Not only do I have a BA in Biblical Languages in which I spent four plus years examining and translating the original texts into english, then comparing them to the existing english translations, but I sold Bibles for over a year. On top of that, I am persuing a Masters in Exegesis and Hermaneutics. NO, I don't think God was suprised. I think he new exactly what Satan wanted. As for Satan's ability to attack Job, I think he needed God's permission first, which strengthens God's authority. Jesus Loves You! Jesusman |
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