Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 35500 | ||
Hi Zacht, I thought you might enjoy this passsage from A.W. Towzer. It may serve to shed some light on our discussion. "Sound Bible exposition is an imperative must in the Church of the Living God. But exposition may be carried on in such a way as to leave the hearers devoid of any true spiritual nourishment whatever. For it is not mere words that nourish the soul, but God Himself. The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God, that they may enter into Him, that they may delight in His Presence." "Christian theology teaches that God must first work in man before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man. Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment within him. Imperfect as it may seem (to the outward eye. JCS) , it is a real and true work nevertheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him." Brother John |
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2 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 35516 | ||
Brother John; Thank you for that Tozer quote. I have read that quote a few times in the past. I have read most everything of Tozer several times, and enjoy re-reading him when others quote him as well. And I agree with Tozer on everything I have read by him to the best of my recollection Thank you once again; Grace and Peace zach† |
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3 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 35529 | ||
Your Welcome Zacht, I read your note to Hank, refering to Calvin's commentary on John 3:16, but I wondered if you had read all of it? In case you had not, I have taken the liberty to send a passge of his that appears a bit further on in the same commentary. Let us remember, on the other hand, that while life is promised universally to all who believe in Christ, still faith is not commonto all. For Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens, that they may seek him by faith. Here, too, is displayed a wonderful effect of faith; for by it we receive Christ such as he is given to us by the Father -- that is, as having freed us from the condemnation of eternal death, and made us heirs of eternal life, because, by the sacrifice of his death, he has atoned for our not wonder if by it we obtain likewise the life of Christ. God Bless Zacht John |
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4 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 35539 | ||
Dear John in light of your statement which I now quote: "Christ is made known and held out to the view of all, but the elect alone are they whose eyes God opens" I ask you to consider the following scripture: John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Jesus gives light to EVERY MAN THAT COMES INTO THE WORLD. To me that would indicate that every man born physically into this world has received light. No man that has ever come into the world can blame God for not receiving enough light to move them to either 1) respond to the light or 2) reject the light and bring damnation upon themselves. However in the end they will be without excuse. Rom. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE: Grace and Peace zach† |
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5 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 35556 | ||
Dear Zacht, Great Post! It is wonderful that 2 men who both love Christ and His Word can discuss their different interpretations of Scipture, and grow in affection for one another while doing so. Praise be to God! Let me begin by agreeing with you. John 1:9 is as clear as a bell in stating that Jesus gives light to every man who ever was born. We also agree that not all men love the light that Christ has shone forth. My question is: Why do some men hate the light but other men love the Light. I think you know where I am going with this question, but I am honestly intrerested in your thoughts on this difficult question. I have wrestled with it for many years but I believe I now have the answer. Your Brother in Christ John |
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6 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 35557 | ||
Brother John I too enjoy all our discussions; To answer your question to the best of my knowledge: You asked: "My question is: Why do some men hate the light but other men love the Light." Scripture says: John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. They enjoy sin and evil deeds, and reject what light they have been given. Grace Peace and love in the precious name of Christ Jesus our blessed Savior and Lord. zach† |
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7 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 35570 | ||
Dear Zacht, Your answer is well thought out and seems to be supported by Scripture. But would'nt that answer imply that some men are created with a natural inclination to the light (those that do the truth) While other men are created with a natural disinclination for the light(those who do evil)? Another difficulty that arises fom your answer is found in Romans: Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." Paul is here summarizing all he has said in the first and second chapters of Romans about the condition of mankind. Which brings us back to square one. Do you want us to continue to search together? I can tell you what I think the answer is, but I would rather we reason it out as a team. After all I am as fallible as the next guy and I am open to changing my mind if we find the truth of the matter, together in Scripture. I am leaving for church now, and will not be able to logon again till early tommoro morning. Your Brother John |
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8 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 35588 | ||
dear brother John; When I personally consider an answer to any question, I first must see what scripture says: Secondly, I begin to collect my thoughts, whether correct, or incorrect, considering such things as the fall of the human race through the sin of Adam, and how everyone since the fall has been born dead spiritually, with an inherited sin nature. and cannot will to please God. But at the same time I also believe that when regeneration comes to the individual, and that from God. We then have been given new natures, our will to do good and please God has been restored back from the original fall. But at the same time when the light comes to many individuals, they reach for the light switch and say no thank you to the light they received. But if I go any deeper into this topic then I would have to bring up the fact of how I also disagree with the "Irresistable Grace" of TULIP also, and seeing how the initial question was concerning "Limited Atonement" also called "Particular Redemption" I will try to stick to the initial question, and reserve the "Irresistable Grace" thoughts for later. Those are just some thoughts I share about my line of thinking, and when all is said and done, I still have to go back to scripture, as I know you also do to find correct answers concerning spiritual matters. May God richly bless you as you daily spend time alone with Him in His word zach† |
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9 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 35663 | ||
Dear Brother Zacht, Greetings from the desert (I live in Arizona). In Your last post you said: "I also believe that when regeneration comes to the individual, and that from God. We then have been given new natures, our will to do good and please God has been restored back from the original fall. I think it is absolutely necessary for us to be on the same track when we use words such as "regeneration", would'nt you agree? I have included the definition from Easton's Bible Dictionary. If you have a different definition, please tell me what it is. Easton's Bible Dictionary Regeneration [N] [B] only found in Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5. This word literally means a "new birth." The Greek word so rendered (palingenesia) is used by classical writers with reference to the changes produced by the return of spring. In Matthew 19:28 the word is equivalent to the "restitution of all things" (Acts 3:21). In Titus 3:5 it denotes that change of heart elsewhere spoken of as a passing from death to life (1 John 3:14); becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17); being born again (John 3:5); a renewal of the mind (Romans 12:2); a resurrection from the dead (Ephesians 2:6); a being quickened (2:1,5). This change is ascribed to the Holy Spirit. It originates not with man but with God (John 1:12,13; 1 John 2:29; 5:1,4). As to the nature of the change, it consists in the implanting of a new principle or disposition in the soul; the impartation of spiritual life to those who are by nature "dead in trespasses and sins." The necessity of such a change is emphatically affirmed in Scripture (John 3:3; Romans 7:18; 8:7-9; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:1; 4:21-24). Does your understanding of "regeneration" agree wih the above definition. If not, please help me to more fully understand your meaning of the word. The reason I ask is your post implies that: A person can be "born again from above" and still reject Christ and ultimately be damned to Hell. Such an opinion denys the security of our salvation. I'm sure you did not intend to say that. For God says: He 13:5 "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee". God Bless Zackt, John Adams |
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10 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 35769 | ||
dear brother John; Yes thats is an agreeable definition of regeneration. It works for me. You quoted the following verse: Heb. 13:5 "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee". I believe that with all my heart. However scipture also says: Thus saith the Lord, ye have forsaken me, and therefore have I also left you (2 Chr. 12:5) The Lord is with you, while ye be with him ... but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you. (2 Chr. 15:2) because ye have forsaken the Lord, he hath also forsaken you. (2 Chr. 24:20) I will even forsake you saith the Lord. (Jer. 23:33) Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you ... and cast you out of my presence. (Jer. 23:39) God will never just decide to forsake any believer, ever! Yet, the believer may decide to forsake Him. Once a believer has forsaken God He then will give them up to themselves and forsake them. This does not contradict that He will never leave or forsake a believer, rather it affirms that God is not the one who does the forsaking. If we fall from the faith, it doesn’t reflect negatively upon God’s faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness So from all of my replys thus far, I have stated: 1) I do not personally accept "Limited Atonement teaching 2) I disagree with the teaching of "Irresistable Grace" 3) and now I have declared to also be in disagreement with the teaching of "Perseverance of the Saints" But I respectfully disagree with those teachings, and still enjoy all your replys. I believe we can disagree on the non-essentials of our faith and still be brothers in Christ. It is in the areas of essentials that we are possibly in much greater agreement. essentials such as, Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, He was buried, and He was raised from the dead on the third day, and is now seated on the right hand of God the Father interceding before Him on our behalf. And that no one comes to the Father except through Christ Jesus. By grace are we saved through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. For we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. God richly bless you as you daily spend time with Him in His word, looking prayerfully unto Him for guidance and direction. zach† |
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11 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 35780 | ||
Dear Brother Zackt, A hearty Amen to your statement about those essentials of the faith we both love and believe. But you know me well enough to realize, if I do not agree on the validity of your scripture proofs as they apply to the question at hand, I will offer my opinion on why they do not apply. I guess I'm just a hard-headed calvinist (Ha, Ha). Let me begin by pointing out that Sherimiah's prophecy in (2Chr 12:5) is addressed to the princes of Judah. Not to the elect of Israel. Do you recall Pauls discription of who God's People are? (Rom 9:6-8) But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but:"THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. It's getting late I'll finish tommorro, God willing. Brother John |
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