Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Morant61 | 14056 | ||
Greetings Nolan! Here is an interesting concept for you to consider. The word "proginosko" is only used by Paul twice in the entire New Testament, in Rom. 8:29 and 11:2. In Rom. 11:2, the word is clearly a reference to Israel. So, why does almost every commentator consider the word in 8:29 to be a reference to individual Christians? The context makes even better sense, if Paul is talking about Israel. The Old Testament quote in Rom. 8:36 is taken from Psalm 44:22. The passage, in context, says: ************************************* Psalm 44: We have heard with our ears, O God; our fathers have told us what you did in their days, in days long ago. 2 With your hand you drove out the nations and planted our fathers; you crushed the peoples and made our fathers flourish. 3 It was not by their sword that they won the land, nor did their arm bring them victory; it was your right hand, your arm, and the light of your face, for you loved them. 4 You are my King and my God, who decrees victories for Jacob. 5 Through you we push back our enemies; through your name we trample our foes. 6 I do not trust in my bow, my sword does not bring me victory; 7 but you give us victory over our enemies, you put our adversaries to shame. 8 In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. Selah 9 But now you have rejected and humbled us; you no longer go out with our armies. 10 You made us retreat before the enemy, and our adversaries have plundered us. 11 You gave us up to be devoured like sheep and have scattered us among the nations. 12 You sold your people for a pittance, gaining nothing from their sale. 13 You have made us a reproach to our neighbors, the scorn and derision of those around us. 14 You have made us a byword among the nations; the peoples shake their heads at us. 15 My disgrace is before me all day long, and my face is covered with shame 16 at the taunts of those who reproach and revile me, because of the enemy, who is bent on revenge. 17 All this happened to us, though we had not forgotten you or been false to your covenant. 18 Our hearts had not turned back; our feet had not strayed from your path. 19 But you crushed us and made us a haunt for jackals and covered us over with deep darkness. 20 If we had forgotten the name of our God or spread out our hands to a foreign god, 21 would not God have discovered it, since he knows the secrets of the heart? 22 Yet for your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. 23 Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever. 24 Why do you hide your face and forget our misery and oppression? 25 We are brought down to the dust; our bodies cling to the ground. 26 Rise up and help us; redeem us because of your unfailing love. ****************************** Isn't it interesting that this Psalm has Israel asking God not to reject them. While, Rom. 9-11 makes the argument that God hasn't rejected them. This is a good example of where I think many are guilty of approaching Romans as a collection of sayings and failing to consider the context, especially of the Old Testament quotes that Paul uses to make his arguments. The quotes give a clear indication that God's purpose in election is to work through Israel in such a way that He might have mercy on all men (Rom. 11:32). Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
2 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Makarios | 14057 | ||
Greetings Tim! Yes, I knew that if I continued in Romans here with Steve that you might have something excellent to contribute! :) I have read somewhere that the book of Romans is a book that should be read through continuously.. I agree with your analysis of Israel and election. However, I tend to agree more with the commentators in stressing that Romans 8:29 could be taken as referring to individual Christians, since the book of Romans was written to Gentiles even though Paul is clearly using Israel as an example in 11:2. Also, the word "proginosko" is used here by Paul in Rom. 8:29 and 11:2. However, the word "proginosko" is also used by Luke in Acts 26:5 and by Peter twice- in 1 Peter 1:20 and 2 Peter 3:17 according to Strong's Greek Dictionary... In Acts 26:5, the reference is clearly to the Jews. In 1 Peter 1:20, the reference is clearly to Christ. In 2 Peter 3:17, the reference is clearly to the church. Since the word "proginosko" is used here to refer to at three different persons in the NT, then I see a little more "room" here for an interpretation of Romans 8:29 to be applied to something other than Israel, or individual Christians. Excellent study my friend! --Nolan |
||||||
3 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Morant61 | 14087 | ||
Greetings Steve! Thanks! Like I said to Joe, I too think that Romans 8 applies to believers as well. I just believe that Paul is using "those whom God foreknew" in a technicule sense for Israel. I realized it was used a few more times by other writers, but generally I try to limit a word study to a particular author, since other authors may use words differently. Years ago, I did a major paper in college on Rom. 9-11. While researching it, I came across a reference to a commentator who believed that "proginosko" was being used as a title for Israel. His name was Black. However, I was never able to find the book where he discussed it in more detail. Other than that one reference, I have never heard anyone else make the connection between 8:28 and 11:2. I liked your observation about reading Romans through. I have always been dissatisfied with the view that Romans is simply a compendium of Paul's theology. It always seemed much more occasional than that. I found one author recently who commented that the questions in Rom. 3 are answered in Rom. 9. Personally, I beleive that Romans 1-11 must be studied as a unit. Keep up the good work! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
4 | Are those He called always chosen? | Rom 8:30 | Makarios | 14133 | ||
Hello Tim! Did you write this to Steve or to me? Just wondering, my friend.. :) --Nolan |
||||||