Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | yokefellow | 31316 | ||
Ka Lynn, Thank you for your desire to study the Bible and see what God has to say about a matter (Acts 17:11). When we look at the doctrine of "once saved always saved" we need to first ask ourselves, "Is this phrase located anywhere in the Bible"? Get a Young's or Strong's concordance and look up the word "once" and see if that phrase is located anywhere in the Bible. If it is not - then we need to reject the doctrine - it's not a teaching of God's Word. Now, after saying that we see that as a result of your study of Heb. 6:4-6 and 10:26-31, you came to the conclusion that we can loose our salvation if we turn from God. Your question was, "Is this correct?" The answer you received through your study of God's Word was "YES", a Christian CAN loose his salvation IF we turn from God (Heb. 6:4-6; 10:26-31); and other passages as well (Numbers 15:30-31; Deut. 17:9-13). Let's examine the scriptures that Lionstrong (who gave you an opposing answer) quoted from John 6:37-40 as his "proof" of the doctrine "once saved always saved". (In other words, you can't "loose" your salvation no matter how much you sin). Let's see if he's correct in his interpretation. Remember, one of the rules of correct interpretation of the Bible is to include the "total" body of scripture in your interpretation (Psa. 119:160; 139:17; Matt. 4:4; 2 Tim. 3:16). 1) Vs. 37a - "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me" - There is a recognition in the scripture that is a certain "class" of people with honest hearts desirous to know and to do God's Will. This "class" (those who are obedient) of people is here represented as given to Christ by God. In the tenth chapter, Christ speaks of having sheep not of the flock then with him (John 10:16), referring to the Gentiles who would receive him when His Gospel was preached to them (Eph. 3:6). Again, at Corinth God told Paul, "I have much people in this city" (Acts 18:9-10). This statement was made BEFORE any of them had confessed and rendered obedience to Him. Some of the Corinthians had already rendered obedience to the word of God (Acts 18:7-8). God has called and predestinated (2 Thess. 2:14; Rom. 8:29-30; Eph. 1:4-5) to eternal life the "class" of people who display a "willing" mind in being "obedient" to His Will (Matt. 7:21; Rom. 6:17). 2) Vs. 37b - "and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." - All that "class" (the obedient) Jesus receives. Some who are of this "class" are obedient only for a "temporary" period of time (Judas who betrayed our Lord is an example of this type of character - Matt. 13:20-21). Christ will "in no wise cast out" those who are obedient and who continue to remain obedient and faithful) to His Gospel (Matt. 24:13; Rev. 2:10). 3) Vs. 38 - "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." - The end of all God's dealings with men is to bring them to DO the will of God. Jesus came down from heaven to earth to lead men in this way. He had no will of his own (his own agenda) apart from the will of his Father (Note Jn. 4:34; 5:30). To accomplish his Father's will was the supreme and only object of Jesus and should be the exact same object of his followers. 4) Vs. 39 - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - God's will was that Jesus should save all who would believe and follow him (be obedient to his will)(Rom. 2:4; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9). However, like Judas, some people start out to follow the Lord's teachings and render obedience to his teachings but when persecutions and trials begin to "test" their "faithfulness" to the Lord, they turn back to the ways of the world, and walk with him no more (Matt. 13:20-21); also note Demas (2 Tim. 4:10). 5) Vs. 40 - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." - It is God's will that all who will OBEY Jesus (John 15:7-10) should have eternal life (1 John 5:1-13). These Jesus will raise up at the last day (judgment day - 1 Thess. 4:14-16). The obedient "class" of people have the spiritual insight and faculties to "see" and "believe" (Matt. 13:10-16; Mark 4:11-12) God's Truth that He presents to them through the saving Gospel of His Son, Jesus (Rom. 1:16). If people refuse or reject that saving Gospel (Acts 28:23-27), they will be eternally lost (Rom. 2:1-11; 2 Thess. 1:8-9). May the Lord richly bless you as you continue to study His Word! Mike |
||||||
2 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | Reformer Joe | 31343 | ||
Mike: You wrote: 'When we look at the doctrine of "once saved always saved" we need to first ask ourselves, "Is this phrase located anywhere in the Bible"? Get a Young's or Strong's concordance and look up the word "once" and see if that phrase is located anywhere in the Bible. If it is not - then we need to reject the doctrine - it's not a teaching of God's Word.' Hmmm...I also looked for the word "Trinity" in the concordance. Can't find it. Do you reject that doctrine as well? How about "substitutionary atonement"? Didn't see that one, either... In addition, your "cutting and pasting" of part of one verse and connecting it to another verse is not the proper method of Biblical interpretation. Show me from Scripture where a "class" of people is predestinated because of their obedience. I want to see the words "God predestined a CLASS of people." Remember: we need to "see if that phrase is located anywhere in the Bible. If it is not - then we need to reject the doctrine - it's not a teaching of God's Word." --Joe! |
||||||
3 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | yokefellow | 31350 | ||
Joe, 1) First of all, I never said that the word "class" was in the Bible. I simply asked her to go to a concordance and try to find the phrase, "once saved always saved". You cannot find it - it's simply not there. 2) Secondly, in Webster's New World College Dictionary, the following definition is "one" of the meanings of the word "class": "A number of people or things grouped together because of certain likenesses or common traits; kind; sort; category." The word "predestinate" means "to set bounds before, determine, decree or ordain beforehand". It is important to understand that God can "foreknow" how men would react to His will without "forcing" His will upon us. It is easy for us to forget that time is not a factor with God. God "foreknew" or approved of the "type" or "class" or "kind" or "category" of persons He planned to save --- the obedient (Rom. 6:17)! God through His prophet, Samuel, told Saul that "obedience" was priority number one (1 Samuel 15:22) in his day and God still hasn't changed His mind (Matt. 7:21; James 1:22, 25). Foreordination does not refer to a certain "person" (God doesn't "choose" John to be saved but Mary will be lost - if He did that, He would be a respecter of persons - which He is not - Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Eph. 6:9) but "kind" of person with a certain "kind" of character (See Ephesians 1:4-13). Before man was created God "foresaw" his fall, and designed the Gospel for his redemption; this fact is well attested by scripture (Rom. 16:25-26; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:8; 3:9; Col. 1:25-26). God "foreknew" that a certain "type" or "class" or "kind" or "category" of people yet to be born would "accept" a salvation yet to be provided through the terms of the Gospel yet to be made actual. Man would never know anything about God's Son unless we had been "called" by the Gospel (2 Thess. 2:14). When man is "obedient" from the heart to that call of the Gospel (Rom. 6:17), he is justified from the guilt of sin (Acts 22:16; Rom. 6:18; 1 Pet. 3:21). 3) Thirdly, when a person asks a sincere Bible question either on this forum (or anywhere else), I as a Christian, am required to answer it by scripture (Col. 4:6; 2 Tim. 2:25; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:11). Since you obviously disagree with the answer that I responded with, you as a fellow Christian should correct me with proper scripture so that I might know where I my error is (2 Tim. 2:22-26) so that I might have a correct knowledge of God's Truth. I answered this lady's Bible question to the best of my Bible knowledge and ability. If I have failed, then I will certainly ask her and God to forgive me and give the matter further study. As of this point in time, she has not responded in kind. Mike |
||||||
4 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | Reformer Joe | 31380 | ||
Mike: You wrote: '1) First of all, I never said that the word "class" was in the Bible. I simply asked her to go to a concordance and try to find the phrase, "once saved always saved". You cannot find it - it's simply not there.' That is NOT all you wrote, Mike. You said that because that exact phrase is not there, then the doctrine itself is not taught in Scripture. Please be honest. Mike, you will NEVER see heaven's rest with your unbiblical theology. Is our salvation dependent upon our obedience or upon Christ's obedience? Titus 3:5-7 gives us the clear answer. It is not our works of righteousness. It is God's mercy. You will never merit salvation, Mike, because you are a vile sinner like the rest of us. You could not even begin to enumerate the number of times every hour that you offend an infinitely holy God. Do you honestly believe that your confessing mouth can keep up with your sinfulness? You are not a Christian with the theology you hold, because you are not trusting in Christ alone for your salvation. Since you are making this wild assertion that the Christian life is a "saved-lost-saved-lost-saved-lost-saved-lost" revolving door, please tell me what saves us, Christ's once-for-all sacrifice (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, Hebrews 10:10, 1 Peter 3:18), or Mike's act of confessing his sins? In your scenario, there is no room for Paul's security and hope of a guaranteed future. In fact, with your "daily confession" scenario, you actually spend more of your life lost than saved, because within minutes of your confession, you have committed rebellion against God again, in thought or word or deed. There is proper Scripture for you, Mike. And I would ask for correction, as well. Please tell me why any of the New Testament writers have ANY reason for hope if they can never be sure if they are on the inside of the revolving door at any given point in time. Trust in Christ's completed work, Mike, and you will be guaranteed an inheritance. Trusting in Mike's actions will guarantee yourself a place in the outer darkness, with much weeping and gnashing of teeth -- forever. "also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will," --Ephesians 1:11 "For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." --Colossians 1:13-14 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." --1 Peter 1:3-5 Who caused us to be born again, Mike? According to what? What is reserved for us in heaven? Who protects us for our salvation? Please do not run away from the discussion as you have several times in the past. Under your scenario, please tell me what Peter is saying in these verses? How does it fit with your view that we have to confess every last, individual sin in order to maintain our salvation? --Joe! |
||||||
5 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | Morant61 | 31383 | ||
Greetings Joe! I would like to join my voice with yours! I am Arminian in theology, but I agree with you 100 percent. All Arminians should be aware that salvation is accomplished solely through the death of Christ, not our works. We aren't saved by works, neither do we stay saved by works, nor can we be "unsaved" by works. The only way "to lose" (and I hate this term) one's salvation is to willfully reject Christ. Scripture nowhere supports the concept of being saved, then lost, then saved, then lost again. Though we approach this issue from different perspectives, we agree on this point. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
6 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | Hank | 31425 | ||
Tim, I agree with you and Joe on this point, of course. My ignorance shines through in my question perhaps, but I'll ask it anyway. What is the origin of this SSLR-SSLR-SSLR vicious cycle? (first S: Saved, second S: Sinned, L: Lost, R: Repented. Therefore, saved again, but sinned again, so lost again, and had to repent again in order to be saved again... The cycle spins round and round, without closure, wihout finality.) Do you know who invented it, and why otherwise apparently rational human beings continue to believe it and go to any length to snatch a verse or two of Scripture here and there that, to their minds at least, seem to support it? Is it because they either don't understand or refuse to accept what God's grace is or what our trust really involves, and therefore can't divorce themselves from the idea that we ourselves must DO SOMETHING -- get involved to the extent of doing good works, or perpetually repenting, or SOMETHING in order to assure ourselves of salvation? --Hank | ||||||
7 | Is 'once saved always saved correct? | John 6:37 | Reformer Joe | 31431 | ||
I can tell you where a great deal of this false theology came into the mainstream thought of American evangelicalism. His name was Charles Finney, and what you have been reading characterizes his teachings during the Second Great Awakening, which left a moralistic, self-righteous theology in its wake that was fertile ground for such groups as the Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and the Mormons, among other lesser-known cults that sprang up out of New England during the mid-1800s. The horrible part of it is that Finney is held by so many in this country as one of the greatest "evangelists" in American history. An excellent treatment of Finney can be found here: http://www.alliancenet.org/pub/articles/horton.finney.html and http://www.gty.org/[TILDE]phil/articles/finney.htm (replacing [TILDE] with the "little squiggly thing," of course) --Joe! |
||||||