Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 65176 | ||
FTimA, I recommend the link below for a discussion of the meaning of baptizmo and the manner in which it was administered in the early Church. The article deals with both scripture and the writings of the Church Fathers. Here are a few excerpts from the larger article: "But immersion is not the only meaning of baptizo. Sometimes it just means washing up. Thus Luke 11:38 reports that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee’s house, "[t]he Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash [baptizo] before dinner." No one in ancient Israel practiced immersion before dinner, but the Pharisees "do not eat unless they wash [nipto] their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves [baptizo]" (Mark 7:3–4a, emphasis added). So baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion. A similar range of meanings can be seen when baptizo is used metaphorically. Sometimes a figurative "baptism" is a sort of "immersion"; but not always. For example, speaking of his future suffering and death, Jesus said, "I have a baptism [baptisma] to be baptized [baptizo] with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!" (Luke 12:50) This might suggest that Christ would be "immersed" in suffering. On the other hand, consider the case of being "baptized with the Holy Spirit." In Acts 1:4–5 Jesus charged his disciples "not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, ‘you heard from me, for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’" Did this mean they would be "immersed" in the Spirit? No: three times Acts 2 states that the Holy Spirit was poured out on them when Pentecost came (2:17, 18, 33, emphasis added). Later Peter referred to the Spirit falling upon them, and also on others after Pentecost, explicitly identifying these events with the promise of being "baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 11:15–17). These passages demonstrate that the meaning of baptizo is broad enough to include "pouring." " "The Didache was written around A.D. 70 and, though not inspired, is a strong witness to the sacramental practice of Christians in the apostolic age. In its seventh chapter, the Didache reads, "Concerning baptism, baptize in this manner: Having said all these things beforehand, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." These instructions were composed either while some of the apostles and disciples were still alive or during the next generation of Christians, and they represent an already established custom. The testimony of the Didache is seconded by other early Christian writings. Hippolytus of Rome said, "If water is scarce, whether as a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available" (The Apostolic Tradition, 21 [A.D. 215]). Pope Cornelius I wrote that as Novatian was about to die, "he received baptism in the bed where he lay, by pouring" (Letter to Fabius of Antioch [A.D. 251]; cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, 6:4311). Cyprian advised that no one should be "disturbed because the sick are poured upon or sprinkled when they receive the Lord’s grace" (Letter to a Certain Magnus 69:12 [A.D. 255]). Tertullian described baptism by saying that it is done "with so great simplicity, without pomp, without any considerable novelty of preparation, and finally, without cost, a man is baptized in water, and amid the utterance of some few words, is sprinkled, and then rises again, not much (or not at all) the cleaner" (On Baptism, 2 [A.D. 203]). Obviously, Tertullian did not consider baptism by immersion the only valid form, since he says one is only sprinkled and thus comes up from the water "not much (or not at all) the cleaner." " http://www.catholic.com/library/Baptism_Immersion_Only.asp Emmaus |
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2 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | FTimA | 65198 | ||
Post #2 Meanings of the word baptizo "The Didache was written around A.D. 70 and, though not inspired, is a strong witness to the sacramental practice of Christians in the apostolic age. In its seventh chapter, the Didache reads, "Concerning baptism, baptize in this manner: Having said all these things beforehand, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living water [that is, in running water, as in a river]. If there is no living water, baptize in other water; and, if you are not able to use cold water, use warm. If you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." These instructions were composed either while some of the apostles and disciples were still alive or during the next generation of Christians, and they represent an already established custom. The Didache is also called the "teaching of the apostles". Who wrote it? What then are Romans through Revelation? Romans, 1st and 2nd Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, Philemon, and probably Hebrews were all written by Paul, an apostle inspired of God. James, probably written by James, an apostle inspired of God. 1st and 2nd Peter, written by Peter, an apostle inspired of God. 1st, 2nd, 3rd John and Revelation, written by John, an apostle inspired of God. Jude, not an apostle (v 17), but inspired all the same. You yourself confess that the Didache is not inspired. The books of the bible are. Which one do you choose to put your faith in? Hippolytus of Rome said, "If water is scarce, whether as a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available" This is a small bit of what I found on Hipplolytus. He was an orthodox Father of the Christian Church, a Roman Catholic Saint, and a disciple of Irenaeus. Author of a large body of early ecclesiastical writings, among which is the famous Apostolic Tradition which was highly influential on the developing liturgy of the Roman Church, and a 10 volume series titled Elenchos, or Refutatio Omnium Haeresium (Refutation of All Heresies). Cyprian advised that no one should be "disturbed because the sick are poured upon or sprinkled when they receive the Lord’s grace" Tertullian described baptism by saying that it is done "with so great simplicity, without pomp, without any considerable novelty of preparation, and finally, without cost, a man is baptized in water, and amid the utterance of some few words, is sprinkled, and then rises again, not much (or not at all) the cleaner" Obviously, Tertullian did not consider baptism by immersion the only valid form, since he says one is only sprinkled and thus comes up from the water "not much (or not at all) the cleaner." Emmaus, I have difficulty with a lot of the teachings of the Catholic church and have no faith in what the Didache, Hippolytus, Cyprian, or any other "uninspired" man said or wrote to establish it. I am sorry but when people believe in men more than in God, apostasy occurs. Please take this as it is intended, in brotherly love. |
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3 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 65203 | ||
FTima, No offense taken. The historical facts about the early Church are just that, facts. Christianity is not lived out in a vacuum, then or now. The writings of the early Christians who were much closer to the apostles in time and who were those who dicerned what was the inspired New Testament and what was not, cannot be ignored when pondering the interpretation of Scripture, especially the New Testament, because it is their witness that tells us with what understanding they received and how they interpreted those Scriptures. Many say they want to go back to the pure New Testament Church, but fewer seem willing to see what the members of that early New Testament Church had to say about themselves. Emmaus |
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4 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | Hank | 65212 | ||
Emmaus, hello. On pain of appearing to 'take sides' on the topic under consideration, I must in good faith agree with your statement: "Many say they want to go back to the pure New Testament Church, but fewer seem willing to see what the members of that early New Testament Church had to say about themselves." While I speak from a 'sola scriptura' perspective, I nonetheless believe that there is much gain to be had in reading widely from church history. When I hear certain people speak of the restoration to 'primitive Christianity,' I'm never quite sure of what they mean and harbor doubts that some of them are. Now and again I've seen engraved on the cornerstone of church houses "Established A.D.33," and yet it is an incontrovertible historical fact that the group who meet in these church houses were established some 18 centuries later by Alexander Campbell et al. Paul is a fine example of so many things, two of which are these: He knew his Scripture and he was well versed in other subjects as well -- things that made him more effective in his mission of spreading the gospel of Christ. For instance, in his sermon on Mars hill he showed that he knew a thing or two about Greek philosophy. No, it certainly does us no harm to learn as much as we can about the history of the New Testament Church or, for that matter, of the Jews. --Hank | ||||||
5 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 65239 | ||
Hank, Always pleased on occassion to share your company on my side of the boat. You never have to fear being capsized on this side which tends to ride high and dry because many more are sitting on the other gunwale and the boat is sailing before a strong wind. ;-) Emmaus |
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6 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | FTimA | 65247 | ||
I fancy picturing myself outside of the boat altogether walking along side of Jesus. | ||||||
7 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 65248 | ||
The only time Jesus walked on water he was headed for the boat. |
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8 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | FTimA | 65252 | ||
Somebody had to save the ones in the boat. Who else could? | ||||||
9 | Explanations of difficult verses | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 65260 | ||
No argument there. | ||||||