Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Love Fountain | 38652 | ||
Dear Joe, Thank you for the questions. You ask,"Yes. John was written by John. Second Thessalonians was written by Paul. You do believe that, do you not? " Joe, I do believe Johns pen inked John and Pauls pen inked 2Thes, however I do not think the words written were Pauls nor Johns, do you? You also state," In fact, the term "son of perdition" could refer to a great many individuals, when you get right down to it." Please share with me who else the son of perdition could refer to, since you say there are a great many individuals who this could refer to? This is new to me, I have only seen one being sentenced(judged), to eternally perish within the whole context of Scripture, please show me who else is judged to eternal spiritual death besides satan,within Scripture. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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2 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 38701 | ||
Love Fountain: You wrote: "Joe, I do believe Johns pen inked John and Pauls pen inked 2Thes, however I do not think the words written were Pauls nor Johns, do you?" Yes I do. The word written were of the human authors, with their own style. We see a very different style and syntax between the gospel of John and his epistles, and those epistles that Paul penned. What the doctrine of inspiration holds is not that the Holy Spirit took possession of the hands of human beings, making them some kind fo "automatic writers." Rather, The Holy Spirit supernaturally superintended the writing of Scripture to keep it from error and to reveal what God wasnted to reveal. Therefore, we can say that the words of 2 Thessalonians are indeed Paul's words, and at the same time say that it is the infallible message of God. You wrote: "This is new to me, I have only seen one being sentenced(judged), to eternally perish within the whole context of Scripture, please show me who else is judged to eternal spiritual death besides satan,within Scripture." Everyone who is not in Christ: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." --John 3:36 "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die." --Ezekiel 18:4 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." --John 5:24 "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?" --Romans 6:16 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." --Romans 6:23 "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death." --1 John 3:14 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." --John 3:18 Lastly, please note that I did not say that the term "son of perdition" as used in John and Thessalonians could refer to anyone. As I previously stated, they refer to specific individuals. But neither of these individuals are Satan, and they are not the same individual. --Joe! |
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3 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Love Fountain | 38716 | ||
Dear Joe, Thank you for your response. In all the Scripture you have quoted regarding judgement of those sentenced to perish, not one says an individual in particular has been judged to perish eternally. All the verses you cited are future and not past. Future meaning a judgement to come at the Great White Throne Judgement, not a judgement that has taken place. Please see the following is a judgement of eternal death in the following, Ezek 28:18-19 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. KJV The above is a sentence of eternal death to satan from God and is very specific in regards to leaving no question of who is judged. You also state,"Therefore, we can say that the words of 2 Thessalonians are indeed Paul's words, and at the same time say that it is the infallible message of God." While it is true that Paul's personality is seen within the books of his participation, I would not say the words were his for two reasons, Acts 26:15-18 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. KJV Paul was a chosen vessel, he did not open eyes by his own words, but by the words that were given him which were God's. Even Jesus says the words He spoke were not His but, the Fathers that sent Him in the following, John 12:49-50 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. KJV The fact still remains, that in John 17:12 and in 2Thes 2:3, the Greek words are the identically the same for "the son of perdition", regardless if they are in a book penned by John or Paul. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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4 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 38721 | ||
Greetings Love Fountain! Allow me to provide an example where the exact same Greek words are used in two different books with two different meanings. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The phrase 'the Word' here is 'ho logos' in the Greek. Obviously, John here is speaking of the pre-incarnate Christ. Now, Mt. 5:37 says, "“But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ’No, no‘; and anything beyond these is of evil." Here, the phrase 'statement' is 'ho logos' as well. Here though, Matthew is speaking of the words and promises that we speak. The same exact Greek word (logos), both with the definite article, both in books by two different authors, both with very different meanings. So, the exact same Greek phrase doesn't always mean the exact same thing. This is just one example. There are many more! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Love Fountain2 | 45746 | ||
Dear Tim, Thank for your responses on this forum, I have enjoyed conversing with you. I have been kicked off the forum and not told why. Tim, a believer is a believer, regardless of the point of view. It is the job of a teacher to look for the love in another believer by figuring out where their foundations lay. No matter how mixed up one may be a teacher needs patience and must be long suffering towards another believer through humility and search to understand how a fellow believer arrived to the point of view they may hold. It is customary for many full time users of this forum to put other believers down. This is done by various words of hurt and is not ok. Nor will it be tolerated by our Father who is always tuned in. I have great hope for you and I hope this all makes sense to you. I am your brother in Christ regardless of my point of view or yours, for one day we will all know the Truth. Regarding Judas, He is not the son of perdition nor is he lost. Matt 19:28 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. KJV Judas is one of the twelve mentioned in the above verse by Jesus who foreknew who would deliver Him up way before the betrayal and still Judas is promised to sit as one of the twelve. Also, Luke 9:1-2 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. KJV Judas is also one of the twelve that Jesus sent healing the sick. Is there really a question of whether Judas was a true believer or if he had the Spirit within, considering he was sent to perform miracles and heal and many other things which could only be done by one indwelt fully by the Holy Spirit? Bless you, Love Fountain2 Hos 9:7 7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred. KJV |
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6 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | kalos | 45762 | ||
Question: "Judas is also one of the twelve that Jesus sent healing the sick. Is there really a question of whether Judas was a true believer or if he had the Spirit within, considering he was sent to perform miracles and heal and many other things which could only be done by one indwelt fully by the Holy Spirit?" Answer: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (Authorized) |
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7 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Love Fountain2 | 45978 | ||
Dear kalos, Thank you for your response. Luke 24:32 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? KJV Our worst enemy is ourself, for it is ourself that keeps us from understanding the simplicities in Christ. When we take away the Word from another believer we take it away from ourselves. May we know the enemies biggest weapon is the pride for which he is fallen. By this pride he thinks he is right and no one else is. You are my brother in Christ in my mind, but that is up to you to make your own decisions by the gift of freewill we all have, of whether you want to be my brother. We all are accountable for everything we do or say and we are all forgiven upon forgiveness of all. Bless you, Love Fountain2 Matt 19:17-19 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. KJV |
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8 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | kalos | 45980 | ||
Question: "Judas is also one of the twelve that Jesus sent healing the sick. Is there really a question of whether Judas was a true believer or if he had the Spirit within, considering he was sent to perform miracles and heal and many other things which could only be done by one indwelt fully by the Holy Spirit?" Answer: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (Authorized) |
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