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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Love Fountain | 28782 | ||
Dear Tim, Please share with me the understanding of the Greek word for "except" which I believe is "ei me". I am hoping the Greek definition is similiar to the English definition which I hope answers your question regarding whether or not satan or the antichrist was given to Christ. I think satan has been left out because as I chased the English word "except" in the Websters and I was led to a definition of the word exclude, meaning to bar from participation, consideration, or inclusion. What about the fulfillment of John 17:12 in John 18:9? This helps me to see that none are lost, not even Judas, no matter how many may want otherwise. Bless you, Love Fountain |
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2 | "Sons" of perdition? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 28804 | ||
Greetings Love Fountain! 'Ei me' means pretty much the same thing as the English 'except.' But, the exclusion is one of category. For instance, I might say, "I have never lost a game of baseball, except for one game when I was in 2nd grade." The 'except' excludes the one game from all of the others. In this case, the rest were wins, while the one was a loss. In John 17:12, the category is "those who have not been lost" with the one exception being "the son of perdition." The point of my question was simply this: If we view Satan (or the anti-christ) as being the exception, then he must be included in the group of those who were given to Christ by the Father - with the only difference being that he was lost while the rest were not. I think this point and the context mitigate against viewing John 17:12 as a reference to Satan or the anti-christ. The context seems to make it pretty clear that Judas is the exception since the disciples are the ones being discussed. How about John 18:9? I don't this verse as saying anything different than John 17:12. Those who were not lost are still not lost, while the one exception is still lost. Thus, I would say that John 18:9 only applies to the "those who were not lost" of John 17:12. Concerning your last comment, do you mean that none (disciples) are lost or do you mean that no one is lost ever? In other words, do you believe that anyone is ever lost and goes to hell? I just ask because I have picked up on a couple of comments that made me think we might be approaching this issue from very different perspectives. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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