Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24578 | ||
Joe When I said unimportant, read it as (relatively unimportant to this discussion). The Catholic Church believes it is 100 percent correct in it's sacred responsibility. While the core beliefs of the Catholic church are never changing, the Catholic Church is a dynamic entity which is constantly evolving to make the Gospel meaningful and applicable to each generation. It is constantly seeking ways in which to reach out and communicate the Gospel. I have never been in major disagreement with any of Martin Luthers 92 points. I don't agree on how he presented his disagreements, which lead to governments manipulating the situation for their own good, and playing the Church against, itself. But - what Luther said and the Council of Trent caused the Church to rethink itself. Joe, did you know that these Councils meet quite often - why we've have two in the last 150 years alone! in the 1870's and the 1960's - the last, being known as Vatican II. The purpose of the Vatican I and Vatican II was EXACTLY the same as the Council of Trent.And, I assure you, Vatican II was significantly more than just changing the Mass from Latin to English. The Church still has not reached the new boundaries opened up with Vatican II. The core belief of Catholicism has never changed one bit during the past 2000 years. But, the Churches relationship with itself, its members, other Churches, other religions, and so on, are re-evaluated. Here is what the Church says, with regard to its relationship with other Christian Churches: 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist." Did you get that part in the middle: Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." From day one, Christian Churches have been arguing over who's the better Christian. If we Christians spent half the time proclaiming the Way the Christ, as we do fighting among ourselves - the world would run out of non-Christians - because every non-Christian would have heard the Truth. But, instead Rome fights with Jerusalem, East with West, Brian with Joe. When the Churches all agreed that the Apostles Creed REPRESENTED the main focus of what Christianity is all about (and eating Kosher foods, etc was not the important part of being a Christian) Once this division was resolved, the Churches focused their energies on proclaiming the word of God.And look at how quickly Christianity spread throughout the world. It is my responsibility to defend the Catholic Chuch (read that as defending Christianity), but I should not have to defend it against other Christians. I should be working side-by-side with other Christians in showing non-Christians, God's plan of salvation. As long as the core belief of Chrisianity is present as the minimum needed for salvation, anything extra, which any Christian Church may believe in or practice, is just that - extra. And, extra doesn't hurt - to you it may not help - but it doesn't hurt. Council of Brian - I like it. I don't think the Bishop would appreciate it, but I like it. Brian |
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2 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24602 | ||
Brian: You wrote: "Did you get that part in the middle: Those 'who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.'" I got it, and I want you to know that I personally reject any communion, perfect or imperfect, with the human organization known as the Church of Rome. Nor would the church of Rome allow me to receive the Sacrament. Therefore, where is there communion? Complete nonsense! "I should be working side-by-side with other Christians in showing non-Christians, God's plan of salvation." If you are adhering to official Catholic teaching, you do not have God's plan of salvation. The very fact that your catechism changes with such regularity shows that your church does indeed reverse itself. Trent held that Protestants are not part of the Church. The current catechism does ("imperfectly," even though the Protestant rejects communion for the same reason they did in the 1500's). So which is it? Did God change his mind? Am I part of his church or not? Both are official church pronouncements, and they contradict each other regarding the status of Protestants (even though the same problems of the Reformation still exist,a nd Protestants have not changed their positions on the things which caused the proclamations of anathema in the first place). And what problem is that? That the clear biblical gospel of salvation by God's grace ALONE through faith ALONE in Christ's sinless life, death and resurrection ALONE is not proclaimed. That is a different gospel than the one we have spelled out in Scripture. The Catholic church says that it is baptism which forgives us of original sin and "turns a man back toward God" (Catholic Catchism Par. 405). The Bible and Protestantism disagree. It is repentance and faith, not baptism, which justifies a sinner before God. The Catholic Church that one's sins are not completely forgiven by the substitutionary death of Christ, but requires the sacrament of Reconciliation in order for the sins of the believer to be forgiven. Again, the Bible and Protestantism disagree by insisting that Christ's death accomplished the forgiveness of all sins (past, present, future) of all those who exercise saving faith in Christ: "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;" --1 Peter 3:18 "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." --Hebrews 10:10 (See also Romans 6:10.) The Catholic Church continues to insist that the "Eucharist makes the church" (CCC Par. 1396). The Bible and Protestantism again disagree. Therefore, while many Christian groups, non-Christian groups, and even a large number of cults would affirm their understanding of the Apostle's Creed, the contents of the creed are not sufficient enough to define who is a Christian and who is not. --Joe! |
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3 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24604 | ||
O.K. Brian |
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4 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24617 | ||
Thank you for condeding my point! :) Now I encourage you to repent of relying on your own good works and merit and on human institutions and rely on the completed work of Christ alone for your salvation. --Joe! |
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5 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24618 | ||
Joe If I did that, then it would significantly reduce my chances for a Council of Brian, and I really liked the idea. Talk to you soon. Brian |
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