Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24289 | ||
Hank This is a 'belief' of the Catholic Church. This belief guides us in our dealings with and acceptance of other religions - including those who do not have the benefit of the Gospel. Without the benefit of the Gospel, non-Christians do not have an understanding as to who Jesus is and cannot be expected to be judged in the same manner as a Christian. Although it's OT and different, an example could be Abraham or Moses. They were not Christians, because they did not have the benefit of the testimony of the Gospel, but there is little doubt that they are in heaven - because they pleased God. Their love and commitment was complete. In a sense, a person who has not been exposed to the Gospel, is living in a modern day - Old Testament environment. We can't be like the elder brother to the prodigal son, and get upset as to who else is allowed home. We accept that God has the right to offer salvation to these other people. However, this in no way condones or supports Christians who turn to alternative non-Christian religions or cults, to redefine their relationship with God. These people are turning away from the Word of God - the testimony of the Gospel. Hank, I posted a two-part question on the Profession of Faith. I would sincerely appreciate your comments. Brian |
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2 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24363 | ||
No no no. Romans 4. Go read it. Abraham was decalred righteous not because of the good things he had done, but rather his faith in God's promise to Him. No, he did not have the name of Christ to trust in, but what was revealed to Him by God is what he placed his complete trust in. This was the Gospel, although not in its fullness. The Gospel was first proclaimed in Scripture in Genesis 3:15, right after the fall, and the only way that people have been saved from their sins in human history is by God's grace alone through faith alone in God's gracious deliverance through a Redeemer. Understanding that we are not saved by our goodness, but rather God's mercy through Christ, is the only way to be saved (Titus 3:5). The Gospel is not a "New Testament" thing any more than the law of God is an "Old Testament" thing. Both are interwoven throughout the canon of the Bible. The elder brother was wrong to get upset, but there is only one way that one can come to the Father (John 14:6). That is Christ. Romans 1:18 ff. says that because of God's revelation of Himself in creation, everyone is without excuse for rejecting God the Father. Even Hindus. Even the savage in the deepest, darkest jungle of Africa. God graciously saves some of these people; but he does so by bringing them out of Hinduism or tribal beliefs and causing them to embrace Christ. Why? Because salvation is clearly through Christ alone. Deny that, and you might as well throw out your Bible, because no message is proclaimed more clearly than that one. --Joe! |
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3 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24372 | ||
Oh, I'm going to have to agree with Brian. The elder brother should have been happy for his younger brothers return. Pride and jealousy are not fit for God's kingdom. No one has denied salvation is through Jesus and Jesus alone. I think Brian is saying the Lord would not create innocent peoples only to cast them into hell. They are his creation. Are they to be condemned because no one has been able to reach them with God's word? Some very rocky ground we have climbed up on. There is an old "fable" about Jesus walking through heaven and seeing a lot of people who didn't really belong there. So he went to St. Peter at the gates of heaven and asked him what that was about. Peter tells him, TRUTH! I turn them away from the gates of heaven. Then they go round back and your mother lets them in. It's a light hearted tale and maybe inappropriate for this debate, but. That's me. The touchy-feely happy person. Lisa |
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4 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24422 | ||
Lisa: I think you misread me. The elder brother was indeed wrong to be upset, but this tale has no connection to getting to heaven by another, "non-Jesus" route, as Brian was implying. You also are absolutely right that God does not send innocent people to Hell. I agree 100 percent. The problem, however, is that no one falls into the "innocent person" category. Read Romans 3:10-18 and you get an excellent assessment by God of just how "innocent" we are. And Romans 1 also deals with the "unreachable by God's Word" scenario: "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." --Romans 1:18-20 All people are without excuse. Why? Because God has revealed the truth of himself in His creation. Because of our innate sinfulness, however, we "suppress the truth" of God's righteousness. In other words, all humans have the truth of God literally all around them, but our unregenerate spirits are constantly saying, "I am not listening! I am not listening!" until God changes the disposition of their hearts. --Joe! |
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5 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24424 | ||
Mmm, I think you misunderstood Brian. He NEVER said salvation could happen without Jesus. He only commented on Catechism as it relates to those who have never heard the word of God. I understand what you're saying, Joe. I really do. I believe - to the core - that we are born with an innate need to know God. What I think is going on between us is a break down in communication. Some folks here seem to be reading in statements where none was made. I think it would be best if we all stopped a moment to pray for the Holy Spirit to come and help us understand each other. Be well, Lisa |
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6 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24570 | ||
Those who have not heard the word of God ARE without Jesus. Therefore, they are not saved! That is my whole point. I understand Brian quite well. He's just wrong. I was not stating that we were born with an innate need to know God (even though I hold that to be true). Rather, I cited Scripture showing how God has already revealed Himself through creation, and that sinful humanity has rejected that, to their own eternal peril. The one who has not heard the Gospel preached to them in words is still without excuse before a holy God. --Joe! |
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