Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24239 | ||
Very good post Charis! I am a Catholic. Born and raised. Yes, I had my wild time where I strayed from God right into sin, but I assure you, I believe in ONE God, in the Holy Trinity. I can assure you true Catholics do NOT believe membership in the church is necessary for salvation. Nor in many other things. However, there are fanatical and elitist Catholics who even argue among other Catholics about this and that. (Tridentine mass is the only true mass. FALSE Eastern Rite is not true Catholicism. FALSE) Among them, I would agree with you, they are not Christian. They don't hold true faith in Jesus. I'm glad you brought it up though. Bringing it to mind and my issue with "them," I may have been projecting some of that onto some poor innocents making good points here. Making a good point is not necessarily elitist is it? I understand your point about the Scriptures. Oh how I would LOVE if we could actually be Universal Christians. Many thanks for both the hugs and blessings. My hugs and blessing to you as well! Lisa |
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2 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24240 | ||
Lisa, this came out of latest Cath Catechism, how do you explain it? QUOTES FROM CATHOLIC CATACHISM 846: "OUTSIDE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION" How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Roman Catholic Church, which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition. the Council teaches that the Catholic Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Catholic Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and hereby affirded at the same time the necessity of the Catholic Church which men enter through Baptism as a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse to enter it. Does the Roman Catholic Catechism make any exceptions to the above doctrinal statement by naming another religious group or denomination? (Yes is 841) 841 "The Catholic Church's relationship with the Muslims: "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us adore the one merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." In Catholic Doctrine, the only religious group that is named that can be saved without the aid of the Catholic Church is the Muslims. |
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3 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24243 | ||
Norrie I would like to join Lisa with an answer to your question. But, first, I would like to refresh everyones memory that the definition of the word Catholic is 'universal'. Your quotes from the Catholic Catechism are taken from the section entitled "The Church and Non-Christians". The previous section to this is entitled "Who belongs to the Catholic Church?" or Universal Church of Christ (my words). 836 "All men are called to this catholic (universal) unity of the People of God.... And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation." So you see, the Catholic (Universal) Church recognizes "others who believe in Christ". 838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist. Brian |
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4 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24252 | ||
Brian, I'm sure the Cath Catechism doesn't speak for every Christian! I would think that it's basically RCC views, they sure wouldn't be speaking for Baptists or AOGs, etc.-see what I mean? If they mean Russian or Greek Orth, I might can accept that tho, aren't they basically offshoots? My mother has a copy of that text. She bought it for latest RCC views back when she was still one. What's that about Moslems too? They sure don't believe in Jesus as Son of God and Savior. |
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5 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24255 | ||
Norrie Please reread this - the Catholic Church is not speaking for anyone, but herself. The Catholic Church is acknowledging that non-Catholic Christians can also be saved, Heaven is not limited to Catholics only. Brian |
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6 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24267 | ||
I thought you meant when you said Cath means universal that they were speaking for everybody-sorry! But that seg. I posted sure reads like Cath only, escept maybe Muslims. I remember arguing w/a Latter Day Saint when I was a kid, both of us claim our religions were only one going to heaven, all others going to hell. Remember, I was raised strict Cath. I haven't been a part of them for 30 yrs but I sure was indoctrinated for 20! Then all my older relatives inxcluding my dad died Cath, Mama just left them about 5 yrs ago which was a miracle in itself because I thought she'd never leave. You wouldn't believe some of the stories Mama tells about how they shafted her and she still came back for more-unbelieveable! I think I posted a few if you do a search. :) |
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7 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24282 | ||
Norrie I can tell you stories of a: Catholic Priest who molests children; Baptist Pastor who impregnated a 16 year old girl; Lutheran Minister who stole a car; an Apostle who betrayed Christ. Do you condemn all for the actions of one? With regard to the Catholic Churches position on Muslims. Just a few lines after your quote, is the following Catholic belief: 847: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. Anyone who has studied Islam, with an open heart, would recognize that this is a religion which seeks God with all their hearts. Do not confuse the criminals,who use the Islamic religion as a front for their crimes, as representative of Islam. They are nothing but criminals. A true Muslim seeks to find God, without the advantage of the Gospel. I believe a Muslim seeking God with all of his heart, is more pleasing to God - than a Christian who is complacent. Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him Brian |
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8 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Hank | 24286 | ||
Hello, Brian. Our Lord said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)...... I'd be interested to learn how this statement by the Lord Jesus can be factored into the stand that your church takes on who will be saved -- those, for example, who "follow the dictates of their own conscience." Jesus is saying He is THE way, while your church seems to be saying there is more than one way. How can you explain this? --Hank | ||||||
9 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24289 | ||
Hank This is a 'belief' of the Catholic Church. This belief guides us in our dealings with and acceptance of other religions - including those who do not have the benefit of the Gospel. Without the benefit of the Gospel, non-Christians do not have an understanding as to who Jesus is and cannot be expected to be judged in the same manner as a Christian. Although it's OT and different, an example could be Abraham or Moses. They were not Christians, because they did not have the benefit of the testimony of the Gospel, but there is little doubt that they are in heaven - because they pleased God. Their love and commitment was complete. In a sense, a person who has not been exposed to the Gospel, is living in a modern day - Old Testament environment. We can't be like the elder brother to the prodigal son, and get upset as to who else is allowed home. We accept that God has the right to offer salvation to these other people. However, this in no way condones or supports Christians who turn to alternative non-Christian religions or cults, to redefine their relationship with God. These people are turning away from the Word of God - the testimony of the Gospel. Hank, I posted a two-part question on the Profession of Faith. I would sincerely appreciate your comments. Brian |
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10 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24325 | ||
The OT saints were looking fwd to the One, True Jesus, they had faith He would come, how can you compare them to infidels who sincerely believe their false gods? | ||||||