Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Hank | 24195 | ||
The eternal security of the believer is not a false doctrine. What is false is any scheme that teaches that our salvation is contingent upon our continuing good works. It is entirely possible for the regenerate believer to fall away from fellowship with Christ but this is not the same thing as "losing salvation" -- salvation is not, nor ever has been, offered in exchange for our good works. Salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ is the only means of redemption that God offers. Our works will never buy us a ticket to heaven nor our sins keep us away if we have been truly redeemed by the blood of Christ. --Hank | ||||||
2 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24206 | ||
How does one know one has been saved? If we are saved, can we then just sit back and wait to enter heaven? Hank, you're Baptist? I'm Catholic. We were discussing this exact thing in bible study on Tuesday. The chapter being Obedient Love. It came up after responses to 1 Corinthians 9:23-27. I can't speak for other denominations, but Catholics aren't taught that our salvation hinges on our good works or even prayer and/or bible reading. However it's very easy to see how someone might come to this conclusion. There is an instance in Exodus where the Lord is angry with His people and would destroy them but Moses pleads for another chance. That would be me. Standing before the Lord begging for another chance. How did our two denominations branch so extremely? Lisa |
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3 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Hank | 24216 | ||
Lisa, I believe 1 John 5:13 sheds light on your question of how we know whether we are saved. It says, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW (caps mine) that you have eternal life" ..... By the way, you noted the things that Catholics teach that aren't essential to salvation, but I don't believe you ever said what they teach that is. What, in your view as a Catholic, is essential to salvation?..... Regarding the differences between Catholic and Baptist points of doctrine, well, that's quite a long and involved subject, but I believe its roots lie in the Reformation, but consider myself most incapable of addressing it with anything that approaches authority. --Hank | ||||||
4 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24228 | ||
DUDE! I have read 1 John so many times and never caught that. Is it any wonder that John is a universal favorite among Christians! Catholic Catechism teaches salvation through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, which would superficially seem just like Baptists. Do Baptists make use of sacraments? Baptism, communion, marriage? Catholics view each of those as "contact" (for lack of a better term), almost like touching base with God. We recognize one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, while we still use the Sacrament of Reconciliation to confess our daily sins. (The whole exersize of the spirit thing...) You seem to also exercize your spirit a LOT so maybe I'm just misunderstanding the Once Saved Always Saved business. I think folks like me (ignorant of Baptist beliefs) might think that since you (all) believe yourself saved ya might just slide on into sin. Even Catholics admit you can recognize us by our "guilt." I can't help but feel I'm not worthy of all the blessings God showers down on me. I know I'm saved. But have I thanked God enough for counting me among his children? Gosh. I think I'm turning into my grandmother! Lisa |
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5 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Hank | 24232 | ||
Lisa, Baptists do not observe sacraments. We recognize and observe two church ordinances, i.e., baptism and communion. Baptist baptism is "believer's baptism" -- it comes as an act of obedience after salvation, but it does not effect salvation. The elements of Baptist communion, the bread and the cup, are viewed as symbols of Christ's body and blood, respectively, and not as being miraculously changed as in the doctrine of transubstantiation...... Most Baptists, I believe, would like to be recognized by their changed lives, their fruits, and not by their "guilt"!...... And, Lisa, by no means it is a tenet of the Baptists that "once saved, always saved" gives us a mandate to sin so that grace may abound! --Hank | ||||||
6 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24238 | ||
LOL! Thanks for putting up with my billion questions. Ah but Hank, one doesn't look at another Christian and think - Oh I can tell he tithes! or -Oh I can tell he works every Friday in a soup kitchen. I'd tell you a funny but true story, however I don't think others here would care for it! Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins. Not salvation. (as viewed by Catholics) Interestingly enough, I was just reading about Emperor Constantine who implimented the doctrine of the trinity and many of the nuggets of interest mentioned in my earlier post. As well as writing the Nicene Creed. During his time, it was believed he held the Spear of Longinus. That which pierced the side of Christ. And that through it he made many beneficial changes to Christianity. Yes - we Catholics sure get a hard time over our transubstantiation. Thanks again, Lisa |
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7 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24361 | ||
Hello, Lisa. How do you distinguish between salvation and forgiveness of sins? Also, Constantine did call the Council of Nicea, but he did not write the creed himself. You have correctly stated that a lot of the differences between Catholics and Protestants hinge on the Protestant Reformation. Don't feel out of place for not knowing about the Reformation; I would say that most 21-st century Protestants couldn't comment on it very thoroughly at all either, despite the fact that for us it should be considered one of the most important periods of history. For a very thorough understanding of the Reformation, I recommend a book entitled "Faith Alone" by R.C. Sproul. It comes from a Protestant perspective, but gives a very fair presentation of the view of the Catholic side of things as well. To sum it up briefly, the difference between the Reformers and the Pope centered around the word "alone." The Reformers held that Scripture alone is our sole authority for faith and practice as Christians. Rome holds that the church's official pronouncements also carry the same weight as Scripture. The Reformers held that we are saved by God's grace alone. Rome holds that we are saved by our own merit, assisted by God's grace (which usually means receiving the sacraments). Catholicism holds that we do need grace, but denies that on our own we can never merit salvation in the slightest from a holy God. The Reformers held that we are saved through faith alone. Works are important to Protestants, but they do not form the basis of our justification (being declared righteous by God). This is in keeping with Ephesians 2:8-10, where we see that Christians are saved FOR good works, but that the salvation that comes by God's grace through faith is a gift, completely unearned (and unearnable) by sinful humanity. In keeping weith that, our faith must be in Christ alone. It is his sacrifice once for all (and not any repetition of his sacrifice in the Mass) which serves as the complete payment for the sins of those who trust in Him completely. Nothing else but Christ's sinless life, substitutionary death, and Resurrection makes sinners justified before a holy God. Some Reformers such as myself hold that baptism and communion are sacraments, but Protestants do not see them as something that makes a person bound for heaven. Lastly, we hold that God has accomplished our salvation ultimately for His glory alone. Those are what are called the five "solas" of the Reformation, coming from the word in Latin for "alone": Sola gratia, sola fide, solus Christus, sola Scriptura, and soli Deo gloria. Even if you come away disagreeing with the Protestant view, it is always helpful to analyze the differences between the Reformers and Rome, and realize that each party held the other to be teaching damnable doctrine. In other words, both parties saw this difference to be so essential that one could not be saved if one rejected their view. Hope this helps a little. Church history is a fascinating study, because above all things it shows our sovereign God at work through (and in spite of) a fallen humanity. --Joe! |
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8 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24385 | ||
Thank you JOE! I will check the library for this book. And thanks for highlighting the differences therein! A boon to my understanding. And YES, I love church history and never turn down a good lesson even if it comes from another denomination! There were many corrupt popes. Popes who SOLD redemption. Evil Evil men to be certain! They did much damage. Watched an excellent PBS/National Geographic program about the Vatican where they detailed much of the corruption that lead to splintering of Christians. How desperately sad! As for your question: We are saved by our faith in Jesus. As far as I'm aware, only Catholics believe in pergatory. A temporary hell one goes to when one leaves this life without forgiveness for sins. I also think it's only Catholics who use the Sacrament of Reconciliation - that is confession of ones sins. Other Christians confess, but to each other. Is that correct? Catholics don't perceive baptism and communion (or reconciliation) as rungs on the ladder to heaven. Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and communion brings us closer to the Lord. Nor do we perceive our good works as keys to heaven. |
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9 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | There | 24727 | ||
Hi Lisa, I too enjoy studying church history, and I agree with your evaluation of many/most popes. As to purgatory, Islam also teaches of a purgatory. From what I've read Mohammad got that through Catholic teachings of his day. From what I understand, Mohammad's mother was a devout Catholic. As to the sacrament of Reconciliation. The Catholic Church usually uses... Matthew 16:19 "And I will give you keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." and also... Matthew 18:18 "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." ... to say that priests are to either "bind" or "loose" because the RCC claims that their priesthood is descended from the apostle Peter. There is a problem with that. Peter was not a priest. In fact he refers to himself as a "fellow elder" (1Peter 5:1) and states in the following verses in chapter 5, that an elder (someone who has become wise in the faith through years of experience) is to "shepherd" the flock only as overseers and examples, and not as "lords over" the flock. But more to the point, reconciliation means "to make friendly again; to make consistent or compatible". If I confess my sins to you after having offended God or others... how will that reconcile me to the Father or the person I offended? It won't. Matthew 18:15-20 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again! I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in My Name, I am there in the midst of them." Matthew 18:21-22 "Then Peter came to Him and said, 'Lord, how many times shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?'" Jesus said to him, 'I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven." (Rreference Luke 17:1-4). The direction for "binding" and "loosing" (forgiving and not forgiving) is not only for the elders, but it is a command from Jesus on how all of us are to deal with someone who offends us... and in reverse if we are the offender. So according to God's Word, we are to confess (actually "repent of") our sins to God, and to the person we have offended. Catholics may not perceive baptism, and communion, (or reconciliation), as rungs on the ladder to heaven, but the church teaches that they are necessary to salvation. In fact I remember "my" priest from years back saying that anyone who was NOT baptized would NOT go to heaven, and that's why it was so important to get babies baptized right away. And information from my family and friends... it's still being taught in the RCC. The Bible says in 1Peter 3:21 "there is an antitype which now saves us, namely baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but THE ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE TOWARD GOD), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (caps are mine) Most babies do not have a good conscience toward God -- just for the record. It seems that the only people the apostles and other elders baptized were those who had heard the Word and believed. The priest also taught that anyone who DID receive communion on a weekly basis (after infant baptism) would go to heaven no matter what else they did or did not do! Nothing matterd except the "act of taking communion". He and I went round and round on that... I used the Bible as my reference and he used church doctrine as his authority. It seems to me that the Bible teaches we are to have communion using the broken bread (as a sign of Christ's broken body), and wine (as a sign of His shed blood -- the blood of the new covenant) in remembrance of Christ's ultimate sacrifice for our sin. See 1Cor. 11:23-26. And we are also warned not to partake of that communion in an unworthy manner (1Cor. 11:27-34). If you weren't taught all these strange things, that's really a wonderful blessing for you! |
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10 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24735 | ||
Again, I'd love to comment further but it's time to let this go. | ||||||