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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Saved by belief or belief and baptism? | NT general Archive 1 | mark d seyler | 164231 | ||
Hi Coty, Welcome to the Forum! If I understand you correctly, you have said that you believe baptism is a requirement for forgivness of sins. But then you later said that you believed a person could still be saved without baptism. Would that not mean that baptism is not required? When I say required, I mean it in the sense that Jesus' atoning sacrifice, and later resurrection, is required. If Jesus didn't die for our sins, and then rise from the dead, then we are still in our sins. To say that baptism is required, then we must say that the person who is not baptized is still in their sins. If a person can be cleansed of their sins without baptism, then baptism is not required. Would you agree with that statement? Mind you, I believe baptism is an important part of our obedience to our Lord, and I am not meaning to downplay it's importance. On you example of the 1000 dollar check, I would liken salvation to direct deposit. Ephesians 2 tells us we are saved by faith, and not of works (not just works of the Law of Moses, but any works). Baptism is a work, therefore, how could it save us? Regarding James 2:24, James is contrasting two different things for us, the first is faith that doesn't have works, and the second is faith that does have works. Look back to vs. 14. It is the faith that does not have works that is not able to save. James is telling us a quality of saving faith. Truly, God considers faith complete when it shows itself by works, but notice, before Abraham offered Isaac, it is written of him, "He believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.(Gen 15:6) - more like direct deposit ;-) Finally, one last item. If baptism is required for salvation, how does that square with: Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. For a doctrine to be true, it must not conflict with Any Scripture, and this passage in Romans is simple and plain. He does not say that it is faith and works that saves. He says that it is faith that has works that saves. We are saved by grace through faith, and not of works. Having been saved, we then do works because we are saved, and one of those first works should be baptism. Again, welcome to the Forum! This has been a much discussed subject, and you can read these discussions by entering "baptism" in the search box. Love in Christ, mark |
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2 | Saved by belief or belief and baptism? | NT general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 164251 | ||
Hi Mark, I read an interesting article the other day, by a Greek expositor, on the topic of baptism that I would like to share with you. 1 Peter 3:18-21 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: [19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; [20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. [21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: The previous verses, Notice in verse 18, “by the Spirit:” Then in verse 19, “By the which”, referring to the same Spirit. Now in verse 21 “The like figure” by the Spirit, not the water. , eight souls were saved by water. They weren’t saved by the water; they were saved because they were sealed up in the ark of safety. It wasn’t the action of the water, as with water baptism, that saved them, verse 21 not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, “BUT”, (a contrastive conjunction) “The answer of a good conscience toward God,” by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which seals us up in the ark of safety in Christ until the first resurrection in Christ is complete. The same way, or the like figure, were the eight were saved in the ark of safety. Ephes. 1:12-14 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. [13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephes. 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephes. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, There is one baptism that unifies all believers, and it sure isn’t anything that we do, we don’t have a thing to do with it; it’s all the work of the Lord. Jesus is going to baptize everyone by one means or another; either with the Spirit or with fire. Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Repentance brings the baptism of the Spirit and no repentance will bring a baptism of fire; and it won’t just be sprinkled on those that don’t have a change of mind about the person and work of Jesus the Christ. Just like the old song says; Jesus did it all, all to him I owe, sin has left its crimson stain, he washed it white as snow. Isn’t the Lord just fantastic; and it’s all by His Grace, CDBJ |
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3 | Saved by belief or belief and baptism? | NT general Archive 1 | BradK | 164253 | ||
Hi Chuck, To you, Mark and Emmaus, good points and good discussion! Chuck, your point is well taken. The example of 1 Peter 3 is well taken. Those who were "baptised" (in water), died! The ones' who were saved, were on the ark- Gods' only provision! I will surmise with a bit of frustration -based on my study- that the element of the Spirits' work in bringing us into union with Christ is almost never discussed (1 Cor. 12:13). It is neglected to the point that one wonders if there is any role at all. It is the Spirit who brings us into vital union (baptism) with Christ, not the act of water baptism! The door can't swing both ways on this. Salvific baptism is either Spirit or water (Eph. 4:4-5)! I say praise God that He gets the credit, and it is, indeed all of grace! My only boasting is in the Lord! Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK PS- Just so you know I've got all my bases covered, I was sprinkled as an infant and immersed as an adult:-) |
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4 | Saved by belief or belief and baptism? | NT general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 164261 | ||
Hi Brad, It doesn’t sound like you are very convinced yet, seeing you still have the thought of trying to cover bases? “I've got all my bases covered, I was sprinkled as an infant and immersed as an adult:” All I can say is that it’s evident that they didn’t drown you, yet; but you haven’t been dipped, soaked, or splashed? Jesus covered all the bases when he died and rose again. If he "hadn’t covered all the bases" he would still be in the grave; but praise God what he did for us was sufficient for our total salvation and more. Romans 8:28-32 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. [31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Have a great day, CDBJ |
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