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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | cult by what definition? | Bible general Archive 1 | justme | 57233 | ||
In the Andes: The unkind words directed toward Hank Hanegraaff's supporters saddens me. First you spelled his name incorrectly. Second you do great harm in comparing Kenneth Hagin with the Catholic church. I will agree the Catholic church in South America is much different than that which calls itself the Catholic church in the USA. I stand very close to saying the Catholic church has slipped too far. I agree they teach things that are unBiblical. But Salvation is still proclaimed My friend it is unwise to down grade a genuine believers works, and compare them with a false teachers works like Kenneth Hagin. I have not the slightest doubt of Hank Hanegraaff's salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. As for Kenneth Hagin, he has denied the diety of Christ, the trinity, and the list seems endless. 2Corinthians 12:20, Paul was afraid he would find gossip. I would clasify you calling Hank Hanegraaff and those who support his efforts a form of slander and gossip. If this is how you find the best use of your time on the forum, I would consider this is contrary to the forums objectives. You used no scripture, only your personal opinion. 1 CORINTHAINS 1:10 warns us about divisions. I Believe it is far better to seek fellowship and build up one another than to tear down a outstanding Apologetics ministry that Hank Hanegraaff is doing. WE need to lift our brothers and sisters up, not tear them apart. Please bare in mind a little slogan I read once. "Lord help my words to be soft and tender; For tommrow I may have to eat them". As one of our members said not long ago. The words we write will be recorded for who knows how many years to come. Rather than harsh rude words how much better a legacy of kindness and caring for all to read sometime later. Peace. agape, justme |
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2 | cult by what definition? | Bible general Archive 1 | In the Andes | 57261 | ||
1st of all, Nothing that I said was unkind about Hank. Nor was it gossip or division. I merely used him as an example. I could have used John MacArthur. You will notice that I said, "here in this forum and on the radio". In reading their books, I've noticed that they dig really deep to find hidden meanings in all that is said by the WofF. But they never have to dig so deep with morms jws etc. For instance, to prove that they WofF denies the deity of Jesus, "in becoming man incarnate and living as a man on earth, Jesus Christ made no use of his divine nature but acted as a mere man empowered by the Spirit." (Word Of Faith Controversy by Robert Bowam pg149) Walter Martin says, that "Jesus did not minister as the Son of God-he ministered as a mere man anointed by the Holy Spirit" Kenneth Copeland takes the same view: "Jesus did not minister on earth as the Son of God. He could have. He was God manifest in the flesh." In my own personal study, The WofF tenets are almost identical to those of the Assembly of God. You can find them online. It takes apologists looking for tiny variations to conclude that WofF denies the diety of Jesus. Thereby concluding that they are heretical. However, in the Catholic Church, It's not hard to find numerous doctrinal heresies without having to look so hard. I just pulled this off the internet. A prayer to Mary... "Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry... To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us..." I had to truncate it to fit the space. And the problem of Coredemptress? Listen, to even have the debate whether there is a coredemptress is bad enough. It's my observation that without the apologists muddying the waters, the only real beef they have with WofF is over money and healing. The original Assembly of God tenets of faith clearly states that healing is always God's will based upon the atonement of Christ. That only leaves the subject of money. I'm sure Kalos, if I haven't ticked him off too bad will want to cut and paste from CRI all the other "heretical" doctrines that I haven't mentioned, DON'T BOTHER. I've already read them and will not read them again. I actually prefer MacArthur's book on Charismatic Caos. I really love it where he says that babies born with defects, cancer, blindness and the like are "God's love gift to humanity." That's classic. (But I digress again, sorry kalos) The Catholic church has in one of their creeds that they believe in the trinity. But wouldn't Cordemptress complicate that? Would that make God quadruplets? Pauls words, "even denying the Lord that bought them" are fitting here. You want to start a fight with a Roman catholic? Attack this doctrine of Mary. That she is useless to the church. These are things from the states! The majority are more defenders of Mary than defenders of the faith. How about Mary's assumption? Mary's sinlessness? I've got something even more interesting. In all of Paul's writings (with the possible exception of Col, but it is included there), he deals with the heresy of returning to the law. In every instance where Paul names a heretic, somewhere in close proximity is the heresy. For instance, Hymeneas and Philitus are of this sort, saying that the resurrection is past, and overthrow the faith of some. Then he talks about thier manner of life and how they teach others to sin. Has not the catholic church sold indulgences in times past? What about bringing the church under bodage to rules and regulations? Tell a catholic that church attendance has nothing to do with salvation. Nor confession to a priest. What or who do they trust in? Have you seen what happens in the Phillipines? How they nail themselves to the cross? walk for miles on their knees till they are bleeding profusely? How they flogg thier backs with whips till they are bleeding? What about all the idols of saints and Jesus? "Little Children, keep yourselves from idols." Hellooooooooo!!!!! I've lived there. I'm sorry. These are much worse than things than anything WofF comes up with. Are there not genuine people who love God in the Catholic church? I believe so. Are there not sincere people trusting in the catholic doctrine and their priest to get them into heaven? Will they make it on sincerity alone? No. It's only faith in God and the work of His Son. Are there sincere people in the WofF? etc etc. Again my beef is not with, Hank or anyother brother. It's with the picking and choosing of pet peeves. Kalos so eloquently cut and pasted for us the fact that CRI does not believe that the Catholic church is cultic. How about outright heretical? I wish they would just be consistent. Besides, we don't judge the man, we judge the fruit right? |
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3 | cult by what definition? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 57267 | ||
You wrote: "In reading their books, I've noticed that they dig really deep to find hidden meanings in all that is said by the WofF. But they never have to dig so deep with morms jws etc." The Word of Faith movement is not such a "deep dig" as you assert. With people like Paul Crouch announcing on TBN that we are as divine as Jesus himself was when he was walking the earth, the heresy just bubbles right on up to the surface. "However, in the Catholic Church, It's not hard to find numerous doctrinal heresies without having to look so hard. I just pulled this off the internet. A prayer to Mary..." You are not going to find any of the apologists you mentioned defending the theological distinctives of Roman Catholicism. Obviously you have not read very much of them at all nor listened to their radio programs if you think that they are defenders of the Church of Rome. They do acknowledge (as I do) that some Catholics (like some Protestants) are justified before God and some are not. But these men will acknowledge the same thing regarding followers of the Word of Faith movement as well. While the "Toronto Blessing" was anything but, that is not to say that everyone there is on their way to hell. They are just dreadfully wrong about the word of God. "I'm sorry. These are much worse than things than anything WofF comes up with." So because some expressions of Roman Catholicism and much of their theology is wrong, that makes the Word of Faith movement CORRECT? The Bible shows them BOTH to be wrong. --Joe! |
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4 | cult by what definition? | Bible general Archive 1 | In the Andes | 57277 | ||
Did you read Kalos' cut and paste? So both are wrong? Does that make both heretical? And if so, will those holding to those heretical doctrines make it to heaven? So you have been to Toronto and Pensacola? That is what qualifies you to pass judgement. "While the 'Toronto blessing' was anything but," Personally I've never been to either place. So I will not presume to pass judgement upon what I have no knowledge of. However, I have had 1st hand experince with many catholic doctrines and practices in my years overseas. Do you know how hard it is to get a person to turn from their faith in the catholic church to faith in Christ. Let's be brutally frank for a moment. If my faith is in the Catholic Church to get me into heaven, Can it be in Jesus also? The answer is NO. It's exactly what Paul dealt with in all of his letters. Am I trusting in anything other than the work of Christ? If so, I have fallen from Grace. See Romans Corinthians Galatians Ephesians Phi. Col. Thess. Tim. Tit. So how often do you watch TBN? |
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