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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | But aren't they mutually exclusive? | Gal 2:17 | Norrie | 13934 | ||
I was trying to think of the answer for Bob, but I guess I'll just go for it here, you can both tear me apart. :) I think there is God's will that is predetermined that will come to pass regardless, like the promises and prophecies in the Bible, including Jesus coming to die for out sins and Him coming back again, the laws of nature, physics, etc. He made and unless He steps in and does something, what is predisposed to happen will happen. But then you get to each person's life. God desires each person to be saved and spend eternity in Heaven w/Him. But that doesn't happen all the time. God made a perfect plan for my life, but I did not follow that plan. We are free will creatures, we eventually follow our own plan, sometimes no matter how dedicated we are and try to follow God's plan. God did not have in his plan for me to be a druggie or a boozer or promiscuous or to lie, cheat, steal, etc. but I did it anyway. He may not have intended me to marry whoever I married or He may not have intended me to get a divorce, but He let me do all these things. This is the permissive will of God. He permits you to make wrong choices. These wrong choices then mess up the perfect plan God had for me. But at any time, I can repent and come back to God, then God will take me, whereever I am, and start a new plan for me, it's not His original plan, but it will still work. Then let's say I'm going along good for awhile, but then I mess up, say I get involved w/someone at work and the gang is going out for drinks or I go to a party and get carried away and make a fool of myself, whatever, this is not God's plan for my life, it is my plan, however I can repent and come back and God will make a new plan for my life. Say I ended up in prison, God can still take my life where it is and turn it around to where I'm doing His will. Now that doesn't mean I should go out and do those things and keep expecting God to forgive me all the time, like I'm using Him. That just means I'm human and I have failings and I mess up, sometimes intentionally or unintentionally, maybe I might accidentally get involved w/something I shouldn't, maybe I may make a wrong decision of where to work or where to live or who to marry, but that doesn't mean God planned that for me, I made a dumb decision and in His generousity and goodness will forgive me and start me on a new path. Even if I never accepted Jesus as Savior, it was still God's will for me to be saved and He had a good plan for my life, I just decided to follow my own path instead and God let's us do that. This is what I think is the permissive will of God. Maybe you disagree, but that's what I think anyway. |
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2 | But aren't they mutually exclusive? | Gal 2:17 | RWC | 13967 | ||
Hi Norrie, Your description here is more or less how I have come to understand this. The one thing I would want to be made very clear, though, is that God is never surprised by the decisions that we make. He does know the beginning from the end. I just don't think that He can have predetermined (predestined) *all* of those decisions for us. Any decisions that are predestined are not, in fact, *our* decisions; they are God's decisions. What I am trying to understand in all of this is how the Calvinist view can suggest that everything that does happen (including sin) can possibly be *both* "God's predetermined, unchangeable plan" *and* the real exercise of choice on the part of His creatures. As I understand it, any particular decision or choice made by one of God's creatures can be only one or the other, but not both. Suggesting that a decision can be both seems to me to be contradictory, and thus my initial question about this being "a Calvinistic contradiction" (see my post " But aren't they mutually exclusive?" and the follow up post "All of God's decree is not predestined?"). Have a good day. Bob |
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3 | But aren't they mutually exclusive? | Gal 2:17 | Norrie | 13973 | ||
I think God is smart enough to know we might make the wrong decesion, but He doesn't make it for us or "predestin" it. Why would we need a conscience is we we just playing a predetermined script? Doesn't make sense. :) | ||||||