Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | But isn't that a contradiction | Gal 2:17 | RWC | 13641 | ||
Good day, Joe! It seems to me that we have come back to our starting point, and I have somehow missed the answer to my question. Your initial quote from the Westminster Confession ("the first section of Chapter III, entitled 'Of God's Eternal Decree'") is, I presume, the basis for Spurgeon's quote which I used to start this discussion. And then you wrote: "So we see two important things right away: 1. ALL things are ordained by God. 2. God is NOT the author of sin." This is precisely the thing that appears to me to be a contradiction (not just a paradox). How can both of these things be true? If God has, as the confession states, "unchangeably ordain[ed] whatsoever comes to pass," how can He be anything other than the author (source, cause) of sin? How does a strong Calvanistic theology logically avoid that conclusion? You also stated these same two principles (that seem like such a glaring contradiction to me) in another way in your next paragraph: "the Reformed theologian will state emphatically that God weaves the rebellion of man in the tapestry of His overall plan. However, man is the CAUSE of man's sin, not God." According to the reformed view, if I am understanding it correctly, the rebellion of man is not just woven into God's plan, it *is* the plan; it is a critical and foundational part of that plan; it was a deliberately, willfully, and unchangeably predetermined part of that plan. From that perspective, how does that make God something other than the author of sin? Please be patient with me here. I am not trying to be antangonistic, and I have worked hard at doing my best not to come across that way. I really want to understand "how you got there from here." A couple more brief points. First, I contemplated quoting Rom. 9:19-21 myself because, if that passage is in fact talking about God's predetermination *to salvation*, then indeed, it asks (and does not answer!) the same question that I am. Does that mean that, from a reformed point of view, this is a taboo question; one that we are not permitted to honestly ask and seek answers for? Personally, I think that Cranfield has come up with the best explaination of those 3 chapters, at least that I have encountered thus far. I would like to ask him a few questions as well, though! Second, you wrote: "Just out of curiosity, how would you work the verses here and in my other posts into another framework. Where do you stand on the reconciliation of God's sovereignty and man's sin?" That is a fair question, but with your permission (and I mean that!), I would like to refrain from sharing what I think for now. I don't have any secrets or special insights or anything like that. So no worries there. I would just like to avoid this turning into a debate comparing and contrasting two points of view, at least certainly for the time being. What I am looking to accomplish in our discussion, as I said in a previous post, is gain a clearer understanding of the strong Calvanistic point of view. And, I hope that our discussion will be of some value to you as well, and perhaps to others who might be reading this. I know, it is much easier for me to "sit in the shadows" so to speak and poke questions at you and what you have come to understand than it is for you to "be on the hot seat" and try and answer them all. So again, please be patient with me. I hope and pray that my questions do not seem antagonistic in any way. Believe me, that is not my intent! And besides all of that, in sharing what I think, I have a lot more questions than answers anyway! As I said in a previous post, I don't fit very well into either camp in the Arminian-Calvanist debate. Have a very good day! Bob |
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2 | But isn't that a contradiction | Gal 2:17 | Ray | 13688 | ||
Hi RWC, I don't know if God is the author of sin but I do believe that He is the Author of our salvation. Don't worry so much about this question for we are not the Potter. I have been looking at Isaiah 48 today and looking at the former things and the new things, and the hidden things, and these things. Maybe you should set aside the all things for a while which are in God's hands anyway. The thing that led me to write to you was Isaiah 48:8 as a contribution to your thoughts together. "You have not heard, you have not known. Even from long ago your ear has not been open, Because I knew that you would deal very treacherously; And you have been called a rebel from birth." I have been led to Galatians 2:20 which is what I am more concerned about. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." |
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3 | But isn't that a contradiction | Gal 2:17 | RWC | 13697 | ||
Good day Ray, Your thoughts expressed here have crossed my mind on several occassions as well. We are sinners from conception, and we are treading in some very deep water. I suspect that if God were to directly interject His thinking into our discussion here, that all of us might be rebuked as Job was (Job 38:1-41:34) and that all of us would be forced to conclude as Job did (42:2-3): I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' "Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know." And yet, I think that, as long as we are honestly seeking to understand each other and the Scriptures (and ultimately God Himself!) better, then there is value in this discussion and that God is both pleased and honored by it. I do not think for even a second that this discussion will end the Calvanist-Arminian debate which has gone on for centuries. But that is not my purpose in asking these questions. I am just trying to understand one point of view better than I do now. You concluded by quoting Galatians 2:20: "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." You are quite correct to be more concerned about this. I can only reply with a hearty "Amen." We must never lose sight of this. And you have my permission (not that you need it!) to remind me of this any time that you think I may be losing that focus. Thank you for a timely reminder. Bob |
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4 | But isn't that a contradiction | Gal 2:17 | Ray | 13715 | ||
Hi RWC, Your discussion has been in a good spirit and is certainly of interest so I don't want to discourage you. Thank you for receiving the reminder. The Isaiah passage I gave was in reference to the rebellion that you spoke of in an earlier post. I would encourage you to look at more scriptures together to understand your positions. After writing you I was led to John 9:25. I had said that I didn't know if He was an author of sin or not. That is basically what the formerly blind man said about Jesus, "Whether He is a sinner, I do not know; one thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see." Looking at the NKJ and the NASB which capitalize Deity, we see the division that was among them; "How can a man who is a sinner perform (do)such signs?" And there was a division among them."NASB,NKJ John 9:16. It is not unlike the conflict you see here in your discussion. John 9:24, "Give glory to God; we know that this man is a sinner."NASB and John 9:24, "Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner."NKJ |
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