Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91670 | ||
Elijah_Jones Discernment is a gift and when utilized correctly it can lead keep us from deception. If it is not used we tend to see things not as they are but as we would like to believe them to be. When we have people that understand this human trait and can paint pictures that are pleasing to our eyes we tend to ignore what they really say and listen only to what we want them to say. It is a trend that has haunted the church from the first century it is known as Gnosticism. Today it rears it’s ugly head by painting people themselves in quite perfect pictures. Their sin nature is overlooked and the problems are blamed elsewhere. Jesus spoke of this when we he warned that the time was coming when people would no longer look for sound doctrine, but seek instead the things that tickled their ears. Nobody wants to hear the problems they have are their own making because they refused to bridle their flesh, how much easier is it to blame their troubles on an unseen source of problems. Nobody wants to hear that living the Christian life is hard requiring sacrifices, they want to hear instead about the benefits. Your right I don listen to the watch dogs organizations. They are our watchmen on the walls, they warn us of the approaching enemy. The word says when the enemy comes and the watch remains silent the blood of the victims are on the watchman’s hands. However if the watchman sounds the alarm and the people fail to heed the warning their blood in on their own hands. These false teachers are peddling their wares in a very affluent society and they are becoming rich basically selling the gospel. Two things are interesting in this. First what they do only works here in the US, other nations either don’t have the money to interest them or know better than to suckered into buying what they sell. Second the people that say these teachers are picking your pockets are treated as the thieves while the pickpockets stand behind their victims and stick their tongue out. I was trained in Word of Faith Ministry, I know many of these preachers but more importantly I know how many live when not in the public view. I know how they talk about the flock, I know how they practice and rehearse, I know of what I speak. However I sense you are closed to what I’m saying so there is no point in going on. However if you ever find yourself without hope because the WOF formula has let you down. I will be here on the forum come back and we can talk. Be at peace, be a blessing to others EdB |
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2 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 91687 | ||
(Part Two.. continued) "These false teachers are peddling their wares in a very affluent society and they are becoming rich basically selling the gospel. Two things are interesting in this. First what they do only works here in the US, other nations either don’t have the money to interest them or know better than to suckered into buying what they sell." my response: Yet again, you base your disdain on percieved (depending on the exact situation, that perception may be accurate or not) abuses and excesses. If charlatons are in fact using the truth of God for their own gain to the shame of the Kingdom, their plight is one we should feel immense pity and sorrow for. But.. the messenger is not the message. And I am sure that some do in fact take the solid foundation and build something upon it that is not a Godly structure. That structure WILL topple, if that is the case. It is no different than other deceptions of the enemy. The recourse is not to build a "fence law" around the teachings being abused, but rather do our part to see them restored in their proper setting. "I was trained in Word of Faith Ministry, I know many of these preachers but more importantly I know how many live when not in the public view. I know how they talk about the flock, I know how they practice and rehearse, I know of what I speak." my response: Again I say to you, your involvement with abuses has created a root of bitterness in you. You have lumped the good in with the bad, because of what happened somewhere along the line. Your getting free of this is not to accuse and condemn, but to forgive those who have wronged you, and to speak the truth in love to bring light to the situation. Don't take on a vendetta that should not exist. You may have legitimate greivances against those that abuse or twist the pure truth of God, but don't assume for a minute that all people holding to the basic tenets of Hagin et all, are in that same boat. I can assure you with all confidence, that they are not. "However I sense you are closed to what I’m saying so there is no point in going on. However if you ever find yourself without hope because the WOF formula has let you down. I will be here on the forum come back and we can talk." my response: And here is the irony. I would not, nor would others around me, label me a big proponent of WOF. My task is to see the Body of Christ fit together, working together, edifying one another, rather than tearing one another down. I work cross-denominationally to see churches working together rather than at each other's throats or stealing each other's sheep. I work with the Baptist, the Methodist, the Pentacostals, the Charismatics, the so-called "non-denominationals", and others. I don't say this to boast, but to illustrate I am not stuck in some kind of religious dogma that only accounts for a certain viewpoint to the exclusion of the entirety of Scripture. I encourage and share the light of God's Word. I bring healing and deliverance to those assailed by the enemy, wherever they may be found. God alone will judge the works of my ministry to see whether they be of stubble or of precious stone. You see, the WOF formula cannot fail me, for my faith is not in some formula, but rather in the One that created the heavens and the earth and the fullness thereof. The One who died for me, that I might live. That took upon himself my sin that I might be righteous in the eyes of God. The One who sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for me day and night. The One who is faithful and true. My advocate in all accusations. And He shall never fail me, nor forsake me. I believe His Word to be true and useful in EVERY situation I find myself in.. both good and bad. He is the One who purchased me from the clutches of the evil one. His name is Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Noone comes to the Father but through Him. My trust is in Him, and thus I cannot find myself without Hope.. for His Word is sure, and can never be undone. |
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3 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91700 | ||
Elijah_Jones You characterize the "watch dog" organizations as mindless groups that bark at anything. However the truth shows BEFORE they say or do anything they go back the to ministry for clarification. In other words they do examine their credentials. In that aspect they follow the Matthew 18:15-17. Unfortunately such attempts for clarification and reconciliation are often rejected, many organizations feel they are above any form of scrutiny and resent any form of it. When there is a rejection or a refusal to correct the situation then and only then do these Watchmen groups reveal to the church the problem. Unfortunately in many cases the church fails to it part. If your involved in ministry as much as you claim you yourself have to know this is correct. How many times do we see a pastor that is caught in sin and dismissed divide a church taking some with him. The people are following a man instead of God. You say I speak of excesses that you have not supported. But in fact you have by winking at the excesses committed by the Word of Faith teaching. You use an old adage eat the wheat and spit out the chaff. Oh if it was that easy. Unfortunately the chaff or junk sticks to us almost more certain than the wheat. Discernment is to more than spotting demons and okaying sin, it is also valuable to spot heresy. Many Word of Faith doctrines are designed to elevate man and denigrate God. By teaching Jesus was born just a man and couldn’t do anything until he was filled with the Holy Spirit separates Him from the Godhead. Then inferring that man once he then gets filled with the Holy Spirit can do anything Jesus did inflates man to God position. Done cleverly this chaff many times is swallowed long before an undiscerning person knows what is happening. What are the things you wink at? Word of Faith falsely teach Job brought his problems upon himself, that Paul was never sick which is also the case of Christians if their faith is strong enough, that Jesus was monetarily rich as was Paul and this is an example of for all Christians to aspire to, that God was helpless thrown off this planet first trying to sneak back through Abraham then later succeeding by tricking Satan with Jesus, that Jesus went to hell and wrestled with Satan for the keys and just barely won, that man was created to be God of this planet but when he fell he gave Satan all his power, that God can’t do anything without faith. Sure they use scripture but they twist it and convolute it in a manner that makes it seem right to the undiscerning. You say I throw the Baby out with the wash water. I say nonsense. You have no idea what I hold true the only thing you know is I call false teachers “false teachers”. Trying to denigrate my spiritual position or knowledge in an attempt to show that I’m wrong will only work if I had stated what I believe and you could point to an error within it. As far as being hurt yes I was, I was lied to, manipulated, conned, charmed, and mislead. When the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth I also understood how it was accomplished. I believe that is one reason it happened so I and others could warn the church body of the deception birthed in Word of Faith. I too want to see the church fitted together, I personally believe denominational division within the church is the biggest hindrance to the spread of Christianity there is today. However that said I will not lower God’s standards and accept heresy to see this accomplished. Failure to use discernment is why Mormons are one of the fastest growing religions today. They speak the gospel and they speak it telling the people what they want to hear. They just like Word of Faith use the right words that make so much logical sense to man that it must be right. Yet their teaching like Word of Faith is birthed in falsehoods and filled with lies. EdB |
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4 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 91709 | ||
I believe I've made myself clear and no further amount of debate will add to what I've said on the matter. I will retire from this debate. When we can bring correction to an abuse is not having just gone through it, but when forgiveness and mercy has cleansed out the bitterness and the power of God has brought healing to the wounds. Until that happens, we are trapped by the poison even if we now find ourselves in battle against it. I'm concerned you'll quickly dismiss this advice like the rest of what I have laid out. Let me say this.. I am not the one throwing stones or bringing accusations against people I would be VERY hard pressed to discount as genuine Christians. That, in itself, should give one pause to think carefully about one's position. Mormon's are clearly false, since they have added to cannonized Scripture to support their doctrines. One must firstly settle the issue of what is Scripture before there can be any foundation to build upon. Comparing them to WOF is just another faulty argument that you have used by tieing something else to what the basic tenets you refer to as WOF are. Oh..and btw. The entire paragraph about Job,Paul, Abraham, keys and all that is all conjecture.. not the basic tenets that I am defending. None of those things you are mentioning are backed conclusively by Scripture. They can be vaguely alluded to, but are in no way remotely close to clear to build doctrine from. So again, it is just a way to blame excesses and aberrations as evidence against the basic fundamental tenets you refer to as WOF. And Discenment is the ability to identify the true from the false, nothing really more than that, at its basic level. So, I'll leave this debate with those final comments and thoughts. Now, I'll go pray that God will keep me from any temptations to sin out of pride, anger, or ill will regarding our difference of opinion. I am asking God that he will bless you and lead you into all truth and righteousness.. as well as myself to the same.. that we can stand before him with our hearts clear of any sin resulting from our difference of opinion. Be blessed by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. |
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5 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91745 | ||
Elijah_Jones You keep talking about bitterness and forgiveness. If I just got burned touching something and warned you of the danger would you say I was doing it out of bitterness or un-forgiveness? Then why do you insist I do it now? I compared Mormons to WOF only in the method of using scripture to support their positions. I never inferred to otherwise said they were the same other than saying they were both wrong. The whole thing about Abraham Paul etc which you call conjecture, is far from conjecture when it is used to support or define their doctrine. I never said you were supporting these false teachings as such. However by saying WOF is orthodox Christianity you are in fact embracing all they teach and declaring it correct. If you remember the start of this thread I did not throw any stones other than say, WOF doctrine which states praying God’s will be done is in error, at the time you agreed in point. Everybody seems to have a hard time calling a duck, a duck. If a man teaches heresy are we not to that is false? If he refuses to repent of this are we not to expose him for what he is? Jesus said many will come in His name that won’t be of Him, why are we afraid to challenge these doctrines and say where on earth did you come up with that? I angered you when I said what I did about Neil Anderson, for that I’m sorry but understand his teaching has been discussed in many circles and found wanting of any firm scriptural support. For that I’m sorry but fact is fact. I appreciate and covet all the prayer I can get, so thank you for praying for me. Again for me angering you I apologize and ask your forgiveness. I never meant for you to become angry. Be blessed my friend EdB |
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