Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 91212 | ||
Ed, I respectfully disagree. Once again 1 Peter 1:24 uses the Strong's word #2390 As does Mark 5:29( 29 Immediately the flow of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of her affliction.) If the meaning of the word had changed due to context, it would be a different word translated the same. Peter did not choose a different word which means 'spiritual healing' but rather chose the SAME word meaning physical and spiritual healing, thus the word healed in 1 Peter does not change meanings simply because it is used in a different context. And when you look at the punctuation in 1 Peter using the semi colon(NASB) or colon (KJV) an independent clause follows. The statement "(for) by His wounds you were healed" is an independent clause. Example: I went fishing at Lake ______: It is known for it's huge bass. Thus, it is my CONCLUSION that Peter is including this statement (by whose stripes you were healed) to complete the reference accurately. Isaiah 53:4 God bless 1Peter 1:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. |
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2 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91239 | ||
Graceful Lets first look at the word healing in 1 Peter 2:24 it is Strong’s number 2390 below is a complete definition of that word. Notice meaning 2A. 2390 IAOMAI Middle voice of apparently a primary verb; TDNT 3:194; TDNTA 344; GK 2615; 28 occurrences; AV translates as “heal” 26 times, and “make whole” twice. 1 to cure, heal. 2 to make whole. 2A to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one’s) salvation. Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : (electronic ed.). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship. It could either be used in context with physical healing or spiritual healing. Going back to the context and I understand what your saying about the semicolon but that was added by a translator as Greek had no punctuation. Let us assume it is correct it still doesn’t prove the intent was to shift from the spiritual to the physical. Another proper usage would be to separates elements of a sentence that already contains commas, which in fact this passage does contain. Therefore to assume it was placed there to create a completely different forces it's usage. Without a doubt Peter quoted Is 53:5 and considering the context it was made in reference to spiritual not physical healing. I don’t believe you will find one commentator that will agree he switched from spiritual healing to physical healing in this passage. By whose stripes you were healed. From Is. 53:5. Through the wounds of Christ at the cross, believers are healed spiritually from the deadly disease of sin. Physical healing comes at glorification only, when there is no more physical pain, illness, or death (Rev. 21:4). MacArthur, J. J. (1997, c1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed.) Nashville: Word Pub. Rev. 21:4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." If as MacArthur suggests this passage was in fact saying we are physically healed of all sickness and disease Rev 21:4 would be rendered less important. Furthermore if we are HEALED then we should never get sick again. Yet we both get sick from time to time and we certainly know other great and famous Christians that get sick. If we applied the same principal to our spiritual healing then we would one day be spiritually sick the next okay maybe a week later spiritually sick again and etc. That isn’t how it works once we become spiritually healed we stay spiritually healed. That is provided for in the atonement. Yes Jesus healed people and yes we can pray and ask for a healing, and yes God may heal us immediately or at some later time but the healing is not guaranteed to us, it was provided for but never guaranteed in the sense that spiritual healing was. Before you jump on my word “provided” go to James 5:14 I use this passage as my prescription for healing. Here the writer is saying if we are sick. We should call for the elders and they should anoint and pray for us. The prayer of faith will make us well. The word anoint here has a similar meaning as the word anoint used in Rev 3:18 where Jesus says anoint your eyes. It means apply medicine. So in summary this verse is saying pray and take you medicine and God will make you well. Yet we see Christians die all the time. I know you say they just die but I contend and medical community will back me up on this everyone dies from some form of disease that causes the body to deteriorate to the point of death. Why? Because we live in a fallen world Death and hell have not yet been placed in the Lake of Fire. I do not know why sometimes people are healed and other times they are not. That is where my trust in God becomes so important. I believe I will not die one second sooner than God wills. Since God promised he would make all things work to my Good for (me) those that love him and are called to his purpose. I have to assume it is for my best interest to die at that time. I also find many times in illness I accomplish things that I probably wouldn’t do otherwise. Could this be God’s way of slowing me down to study or read? One other thing I learn in sickness is to enjoy and hold precious health. I don’t think I could really praise and worship God for my health if I never experienced sickness. Before you say God never uses sickness please read I Cor 11: 17-34 pay particular attention to verse 30. Clearly it shows that if we take communion in an unworthy manner God will make us sick and it may be unto death. Graceful I'm not trying to destroy or weaken your faith. As faith is pleasing to God. What I'm trying to do is get your faith in God trusting Him to do what is best (maybe not in your judgement) in your life. Not putting your faith in the faith that says you don't have to experience the refining fire. EdB |
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3 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 91277 | ||
Ed, I do not have time today to discuss your entire post but would like to hit one small point.. You said, "If as MacArthur suggests this passage was in fact saying we are physically healed of all sickness and disease Rev 21:4 would be rendered less important. Furthermore if we are HEALED then we should never get sick again. Yet we both get sick from time to time and we certainly know other great and famous Christians that get sick." The PROVISION OF healing just as the PROVISION of salvation must be RECEIVED bu faith... God bless, |
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4 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91288 | ||
Graceful The passage in Is 53:5 is hard to understand whether it is talking about physical or spiritual healing. Let’s see if we can make some sense out of it. One word seems to be the key that word is “Healed” . the ‘ed’ on the end makes it past tense which means it is not an on going thing, but rather it has been accomplished or finished. Now if we read the passage we see that by Jesus stripes we are healed. Whatever was going to take place whether it was spiritual or physical has been accomplished it doesn’t need to be done again, it is final and complete. When a person comes to Jesus do they need to keep getting saved? No, once is all it takes, it is accomplished and finished, our salvation is complete. However as people living in this world do we need a healing from time to time? Yes we do. James instructs us when we do to call for the elders and have them anoint and pray for us. Therefore it is an ongoing thing. It is not complete. We said the action talked about in Is 53:5 was a one time thing, it was complete and finished. Which of these two fits that spiritual healing or physical healing? I think you would have to admit only spiritual healing is a one time occurrence. Physical healing is ongoing. Therefore for Is 53:5 to be talking about our physical healing it would have had to say by his stripes we are provided healing. I hope I explained this is a way not to upset you but to clearly show you this couldn't be a physical healing. EdB |
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5 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 91366 | ||
You explained it in such a way that I understand what you believe. But Yes, I do believe physical healing has been proveded once for all, but we as believers have been taught to accept sickness and even to embrace it as some kind of gift from God..therefore we do not accept this very clear promise. Isaiah 53 says ,"He was wounded for our transgressions," Does this mean we no longer transgress? "He was bruised for our iniquities," Do we still commit iniquities? " The chastisement needful to obtain peace was upon Him" This is the renewed relationship with our Father, the rejoining of hands...and most of us recognize and hold fast to this one. "By His stripes we are healed." Are is not past tense but present but just for arguments sake, let's say past tense... Yes, healing has been provided but are some of us still sick? Yes Why? For the same reason we still commit sin and iniquities and do not walk in a relationship as we could and should and are sick.. because we accept them as unavoidable and as mere 'human' fact. Scripture tells us we are to submit our members (physical body) to righteousness...crucify the works of the flesh..progressively move toward holiness and away from sin. The same is true for healing... Healing has been provided in the same manner as salvation..unrefutable...we receive that by faith and do not allow anyone to rob us of this truth... But healing we do not accept, thus we do not hold tight to the promise because we do not believe it. The Hebrew word MEANS MADE WHOLE (spirit soul and body) and human reasoning does not alter that fact. Ed, you said you believe James 5:13-15 13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Does scripture say 'shall raise him up' or does it say 'might raise him up if it is the Lord's will'.... In response to your next observation...this proves God knew we would be sick...yes, and He also made provision for sin when we sin although He said 'sin not'. God is not ignorant of our humanity, but has made provision for our spirit to take authority over the flesh as the Holy Spirit enlightens us to the Truth. God bless |
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6 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91376 | ||
Graceful You said, "Isaiah 53 says ,"He was wounded for our transgressions," Does this mean we no longer transgress? "He was bruised for our iniquities," Do we still commit iniquities? " The chastisement needful to obtain peace was upon Him" This is the renewed relationship with our Father, the rejoining of hands...and most of us recognize and hold fast to this one. "By His stripes we are healed." Are is not past tense but present but just for arguments sake, let's say past tense... Yes, healing has been provided but are some of us still sick? Yes Why? For the same reason we still commit sin and iniquities and do not walk in a relationship as we could and should and are sick.. because we accept them as unavoidable and as mere 'human' fact." Yes all these elements are past tense and yes we still commit many of them but we only have to be born again once to cover them. My transgressions are forgiven both the ones in past, the ones present, and the ones future by the bold of Jesus. They no longer make my spirit sick. If physical healing was included here then all sickness in the born again believers life would have to be gone, done away with, but it is not. Therefore the healed has to be talking about a healing separate from physical. Yes James does say will raise him up, but once again healing can be taking the body home where there is no sickness, pain or suffering. I know of no teaching in the true church that teaches us to accept sickness for anything other than what it is, the result of living in a fallen world. I also do not know of any teaching in the true church that says we embrace sickness as some gift. However many do hold to Romans 8:28 that says in all things God will work it to our good. Yes I have seen good come from sickness. I saw a man accept Christ because he was sick, I saw a man make a decision to go into full time ministry as he was coming through a sickness. I personally thank God each time I see a blind, handicap or afflicted person for His mercy on me. While you may not like this there is a saying. 'you would not understand light or appreciate it if you never knew darkness.' The same applies here if we never saw a blind person would we really appreciate our sight? If we never were sick sick would we appreciate our health. I don't know why God makes some people blind or deaf or lame but the Ex 4:11 says he does and I think it is so we appreciate what we have. It seems cruel to the those afflicted but our life is a mere vapor in eternity and God has promised special reward to those born blind, handicapped or deaf. Your whole premise on physical well being fades when we view it from eternity. If we were going to live for eternity this world our physical state would be important but we are only passing through. Our physical state in this world has little consequence when view from eternity's prospective. John said seek after the things that endure that is what is important. The things of this world are going to past on. Let us just say healing was as you say in the atonement, and we live 85-120 years sickness free, what effect would that have on us in eternity? Let's say God will give us anything we want and we live those years in the lap of luxury what effect on us will that make in eternity? They are meaningless when viewed from eternity knowing they this world is going to past away. What is important? Where we are eternity. You view God’s promises as promises for this physical world I view God telling us seek first MY Kingdom and the rest will be handled and have little of no importance to you. Look at Paul, he said something similar, “I have learned to be content in rich and need, in hot or cold, in sickness and in health. Isn’t what he really saying is I have learned what is really important, it isn’t how much money I have or where I live or if I’m perfect or handicapped nothing really matters in this world what matters is whether my name is written in the Lamb’s book of life. EdB |
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7 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 91401 | ||
Hi Ed, I am done with this thread...I just read through it and see that not only have you and I made zero progress..neither has anyone else...no one is benefiting from this. In response to the above post...I believe Isaih 53:4 is speaking of spiritual, soulish, and physical healing. In regard to the communion, I believe the communion was being desecrated, treated unholy and without discernment of the sacrifice of Jesus, which included physical healing. "Let us just say healing was as you say in the atonement, and we live 85-120 years sickness free, what effect would that have on us in eternity? Let's say God will give us anything we want and we live those years in the lap of luxury what effect on us will that make in eternity?" It would mean God's children are walking in the fullness of His will at least in that area. It is a promise to be received. The only reason it is such a predominate issue here on the forum is that so many do not believe. Some believe as you and some do not believe He heals at all. That is not what I believe. God bless |
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8 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91541 | ||
Graceful I never said God doesn't always heal. I said God doesn't always do what we want but does what He wants. If He would have us sick until we reach heaven then we will be sick until we reach heaven. If God would have us healed at the ahnds of a doctor then we will be healed at the hands of a doctor. It he would have us healed in the next instant, next hour, nest day, week month or year that is what will happen. We must have faith but we must also realize God is in control. One last word "read the book". EdB |
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9 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 91545 | ||
Ed, what was the other book...? I asked earlier but I guess you missed it. God bless |
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10 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91550 | ||
Graceful Christianity in Crisis Hank Nanegraaff A Different Gospel, McConnell Kingdom of the Cults Walter Martin Seduction of Christianity Dave Hunt Charismatic Chaos John MacArthur This one is down on all forms of Pentecostalism but brings up many of the abuses that only Word of Faith commit. EdB |
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