Results 1 - 16 of 16
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | PastorFloyd | 90481 | ||
I too believe the Holy Spirit is grieved by what His followers are doing to one another. God gave each of us a will and we can believe what we want to. I find it hard to imagine why anyone would want to be sick when God gave us provisions to be well. But, again, that is their right and I will not impose my beliefs on them if they do not want them. If they ask why I base my faith on being well I will tell them. It is their right to believe my obeservations, based on what the Bible teachs us, or not. By the same token it my right, to believe the whole Bible, not just the parts I want to take out. I believe this: "Don't knock what you haven't experienced yourself." Scripture says: "Ask and you shall receive." An ex-cop, turned minister, once told me this: He said" "if you hear a judge impose a sentence on a person and he uses the word WILL: Such as, you will serve 25 to life. That person, most likely will serve a few years and then has the opportunity to get out on parole. BUT if that same judge uses the words: You SHALL serve 25 years to life, then that person shall serve at least 25 years before coming up for parole. By the same token if God says we don't have to be sick or poor, then we have the chance, based upon our faith to be just the opposite. It is our will that He takes into consideration and I agree that and I believe the Holy Spirit is grieved by our actions and our words. Right now there is a controversary going on at this forum that being "slain in the spirit" is not scriptural. They are right, it is not. There is no reference point in God's Word to base it on, but that doesn't necessarily mean God can't do it. Again: If you haven't experienced it don't knock it. I find to my amazement that people would rather be sick and have crippling diseases, rather than to believe the Word of God. They want to save face once they make a statement and go on with what the enemy gives them. I shall pray for you my brother, that God shall continue to work through you to give sage advice. |
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2 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 90538 | ||
Thank you for your response. I took special note to the wise words below. I see this truth in relationship to sin and the law as addressed in Romans 7. Had there been no law, no statement from God saying 'thou shalt not' there would have been no transgression. You said: "By the same token if God says we don't have to be sick or poor, then we have the chance, based upon our faith to be just the opposite." God bless |
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3 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90573 | ||
Graceful "By the same token if God says we don't have to be sick or poor, then we have the chance, based upon our faith to be just the opposite." I guess God lied to all those that died from disease that were faithful Christians. I held the hand of a woman that died of Lung cancer after 3 years struggling against it. Her last words were God is going to heal me. I then had to deal with her husband that believed as you do that if they had enough faith she had to get healed. Right up until she died they both believed she had to be healed. I my eyes she was Healed she was in Jesus' presence and that is the best healing available. As far as riches, I guess God again lied to all those that live in Haiti. For every Christian in Haiti to be even a third as rich as you are the economy of the Haiti would have to have a 100 fold increase. If what you say is true than tell me why Paul didn't go to Jerusalem and teach it to the saints there instead of traveling throughout the land taking offerings from the other saints to help them? You have got to rid yourself of this heaven on earth mentality. EdB |
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4 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 90575 | ||
It is not 'Heaven and earth' mentality. It is Kingdom of God believing. Christians are in the 'Kingdom of God'. Most are not aware of this fact and if they are, many do not recognize there is a difference. God bless |
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5 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90577 | ||
Graceful While we do dwell in the Kingdom of God in the spiritual we do not yet physically live in that Kingdom. It is presently in Heaven however Jesus will return one day to establish it here on this earth for 1000 years. This is the point your missing we still live physically in a fallen world and the effects of the curse still effect our physical bodies. However we have been delivered spiritual from the darkness and are free of the curse spiritually. EdB |
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6 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | gracefull | 90611 | ||
Ed, We are spirit, have a soul and live in a body. Our spirit man has been regenerated and we have been translated from the dominion of darkness to the dominion of Jesus. The new position of our spirit carries with it many benefits...healing is one of them. I did a quick search of Kingdom of God and have never really looked at all these in one sitting..This is great! But a few that jump out at me are listed below. Odviously there was emphasis on our 'earthly' existence in regard to the kingdom. Matthew 6:32-34 But seek ye first the kingdom of God , and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. What things? drink, food, clothing Luke 9:2 And He sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. Luke 9:11 And the people, when they knew it, folowed him: and He received them, and spake to them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing. Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therin, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is nigh unto you. "However we have been delivered spiritual from the darkness and are free of the curse spiritually". We are free of the curse...period. Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Where in this scripture is there any even vague implication that our translation into the kingdom of God is spiritual only? These verses clearly confirm that healing is part of the gospel, part of the provision of Jesus's redemptive work. And to answer your other post...Healing is a provision of the atonement, not the atonement. The shedding of blood is the source of our peace with God, and physical healing is part of the package. By His STRIPES we were healed! By His shedding of blood we were redeemed..to all that believe and receive..by believing and receiving we receive our healing. Why are some not healed? That is between them and God. I am not their judge and indeed could not be, because I can't know their heart. And neither can you, but we can be sure of the Word. James 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Does this say might or might not? It seems to me that the condition is not whether God will or will not heal, but rather whether the prayer is a prayer of faith...This is the requirement...not whether someone has passed their test, or whether someone has been faithful. Once again Ed, I do realize that as we are all still growing and have not become perfect in our heart and our mind, sickness can still come in, but only through our own unlocked doors, unprotected windows. You once asked me how I would respond if some calamity came upon me. My response would be Daniel 3:17-18 17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. 18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. I am human and fallable, but God's Word is not... God bless |
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7 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90714 | ||
Graceful You said "Matthew 6:32-34 But seek ye first the kingdom of God , and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. What things? drink, food, clothing That is right but what do we seek? The Kingdom of God what do we get everything we need. However it does not say seek the healing and you will find the kingdom of God. This is where convolution begins people are seeking a healing not the kingdom, why. Because like you we place our emphasis on our pysical wellbeing instead of our spiritual well being. The men you so admire the false teachers as I call them what do they teach seeking God or seeking a healing? EdB |
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8 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 90750 | ||
Most, and I believe all, of the "faith-healers" that some have decried against in this topic certainly DO promote seeking God first, and healing as part of the blessing of drawing close to him and dwelling in his presence and Kingdom. That being said.. MANY came to Jesus in the gospels looking for healing. They came to be healed but left with more than just a physical healing. I don't think it is in any way unscriptural for people to come to meetings to be healed and in so doing, to find the Lord. Finding the Lord is numero uno! The healings and other blessings He bestows are just the icing of the cake. Praise God from Whom all blessings flow! |
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9 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90756 | ||
Elijah_Jones While most of the faith healers decried on this forum claim to promote seeking Jesus first, in truth what they really promote is themselves. They do it in way that looks like Jesus is getting the credit but in fact they have people looking at the their physical wellbeing first and everything else second. Look how they advertise it is never ‘Salvation meeting tonight’ it is rather ‘healing meeting tonight’. Look at Jesus’ ministry as long as he was meeting the physical needs of the people thousands listened but when he got down to the meat everyone but a handful left. I have asked this question of countless pastors and theologians. If you had two identical churches one had a revival in which 300 were saved and the other a revival where the Word of God was abused but a person was healed and got out of wheel chair which do you think would have the bigger crowd the second night. To a person the answer was the one where the man was healed. Think about it Salvation is the greatest miracle that has ever occurred. The Word says all of heaven rejoices when someone new is added to the Kingdom. Yet what miracle draws the most attention here on earth? Again I’m not anti healing I believe God heals today. I have been healed and have prayed for other that God has healed. I believe we should always pray that God heals us or others. What I’m saying is wrong is to say, “God ‘has to’ heal us and if we aren’t healed it is because we have sin or lack faith.” That is wrong. EdB |
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10 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 90779 | ||
I agree with you that we are on dangerous ground when we start to place demands of God. I know of only one place he asked to come out and test him at his word, and that had to do with giving as found in Malachi. I think it is dangerous to think that God HAS to heal us, as thoughn we somehow have the "goods" on him. He doesn't have to heal us, but he has chosen to say that he will. Once he says it, THEN he is obligated by his word, due to his nature. There are quite a number of places in scripture that God has said that he desires to heal us. I do believe confessing the Word in spite of the circumstances is a correct thing to do. I am not talking about some mind-over-matter thing, but rather believing God's word despite when circumstances would cause us to doubt His Word. The disciples seemed to have the same trouble, as did others he ministered to. The classic "Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief" is perhaps appropriate in many situations we face. My concern is that we must be careful to judge those ministering in healing power as "grandstanders". Some of them may be, (although I doubt that true healing power will flow for long when someone falls into that trap).. perhaps all of them have fallen into that trap from time to time, since pride is always waiting to snare us. Fortunately, God is slow to anger and gives us time to see the error in our ways. He is much more longsuffering than seems prudent, oftentimes. Personally, I must THANK GOD FOR THAT! The thing about pride vs. most sin, is that it most often finds it crook in us for our accomplishments, rather than our failures.. and can thus be very sneaky in gaining entrance into our lives. But I digress... If healing revivals are true, there is but one Litmus test: Is the Lord Jesus, The Father, and the Holy Spirit being given credit and are people being led to HIM in finding all their needs met.. firstly spiritual and then in the natural. (the well-known "Seek first the Kingdom, and all these things shall be added to it") Are people being brought to a true salvation experience through faith in the Son of God of the bible. At this point in my life, there are certainly mainy things I ponder as to why God has chosen to do things the way he has. In the area of healing, and other much more difficult areas.. I have come to a place where the wisest thing I can say is along the lines of: I believe that God does things such and such a way... but I MAY be wrong. I believe God will honor such humility in the areas where there are no easy answers and sincere and genuine Christians find differing opinions on a matter. In all things though, the Word of God settles the matter, even when my experience seems to say otherwise. This holds true in the healing arena too. I think it is God's will that his people be blessed and walk in health and all-sufficiency as a general rule. That doesn't mean there aren't situations where God will use disease or other trials to test and teach us through.. though when that happens, it is because Satan is allowed to do so. (Job is a classic example of this) I don't think super-faith is required.. just the faith of a mustard seed. :) I am blessed to see all the various points being discussed here, as a new person to this message board. As long as we all are searching for the truth of a matter, rather than trying to prove ourselves right for the sake of being right, such discourse can be healthy and constructive. The final caveat being that when we truly see God's answer in His Word, even if it disagrees with our opinion or experience, we will put our faith in what He says and not stubbornly hold on to our ideas and conclusions. |
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11 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90783 | ||
Elijah_Jones From what you siad I think we are in agreement. However there is one point you said, "My concern is that we must be careful to judge those ministering in healing power as "grandstanders". Some of them may be, (although I doubt that true healing power will flow for long when someone falls into that trap).. " My point is this is more frequent than we think. Even Jesus said there would those that come and say we prophesied (preached) in your name, we cast out demons in your name, and we did miracles (healed) in your name. Jesus then said he will tell them to depart for He never knew them. When a man becomes rich preaching I think it is real good indication that he is more interested in the money than the Jesus. EdB |
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12 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 90799 | ||
Yes, Jesus did warn about false teachers.. however, I do think he was primarily warning about those that would teach that Salvation is other than thru the Risen Jesus Christ by grace through faith. ALL of us have flaws in our doctrine. That is a hard statement to swallow, but it is very true. Hopefully the major flaws are in the "fringe" areas, but nonetheless they are most certainly there.. for we all see with imperfection rather than full clarity. How else can those who are truly and genuinely devoted to the Lord and His word be in disagreement? My big concern is that the baby does not get thrown out with the bathwater.. to coin a familar phrase. Just because a ministry becomes prosperous or highly publicized does not disqualify it from being genuine. Those preaching a different Gospel than Christ crucified, our hope of glory certainly does disqualify us. Those seeking personal gain while knowingly using decietfull schemes and manipulations are another group whom shall suffer shame at the time they stand before the Lord. Those causing division among the body of Christ out of pride and self-serving also are on very shaky ground. The ministy of the likes of Benny Hinn, Hagin, etc.. well, I just don't feel comfortable in saying they are not following hard after the Lord in the particular stream of annointing they have been given. (in fact, there was a time where I was so bold as to publicly ridicule Benny Hinn. Within a short time the Lord dealt with me on it in a very supernatural manner, which I will gladly share with you if you are interested. It was a very humbling experience) Oftentimes people came to see Jesus to be healed or see a miracle, and walked away with their Faith built up. A primary job we as believers are duty-bound to perform is to build up one anothers faith through ministry and testimony. The questions we must ask are: 1. Are people's faith being built up in Jesus the Messiah? 2. Our genuine conversions taking place? (It would be very hard to offer proof to the contrary, since I know personally people who have come to the Lord through the vehicle of these people's ministry) 3. Is the God of the bible being given the Glory? (See Acts 3:12-16 for a most wonderful example of how that should look) 4. Is the word of God being preached? There are of course other questions, these are just some of the first to come to my mind. Getting back to the warning about "Depart from me, for I never knew you".. I really don't see how that can apply to these men of God that are being examined in this topic. EVEN IF.. and that is a big IF.. they are in major error on their doctrine regarding healing and blessings, I would be extremely surprised if they are not born-again, Jesus believing, Christians. I have to believe, thru careful examination of the rest of scripture, that Jesus was refering to the likes of those that have no personal relationship with Christ but are just out to fleece the sheep. (I once saw a movie about a "healing evangelest" that worked with spotters in the audience and secret mikes and what not with Steve Martin in it. That would certainly be a type of just such a person.) |
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13 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90842 | ||
Elijah_Jones I agree once again. The thing to remember is miracles do not really draw us to God. Faith does. We see a perfect example of this in the Exodus with children of Israel coming out of Egypt they saw God wrought 10 miracles of plagues, deliverance by the parting of the Red sea and pillar of fire. Yet within a short time they were worshipping a God of their creation. I have heard people say if I could just see the hand of God I would believe. Yes they would for a short period of time but soon all is forgotten. Jesus healed many but not one stood with Him was the crowd cried crucify Him. Healings do little to validate a ministry, proven by the fact Jesus healed many yet He was still opposed. There is nothing wrong with a ministry that prospers, there is when they stop being good stewards of God's money. When the money is used to provide the a man or two with a lavish lifestyle rather than being used to help others there is a problem. Billy Graham Ministry is a great example of proper stewardship. Dr. Graham himself takes no money from the ministry at all. He is paid a salary set by a board of responsible men from endowments of a few supporters. The money collected at a crusade is either used to pay expenses of that crusade or sent forward to assist with the next. The Graham people involved in a crusade are not paid nor are their expenses from the collected offering but rather again from endowments from supporters. Therefore the size of the crusade does not effect their salary in the least. Truly they are not doing it for the money yet the ministry is successful EdB |
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14 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 90886 | ||
I mostly agree with you on these points. I would say that the bible teaches that signs and wonders can and should accompany ministry. Demonstrations of the power of the Spirit of God can certainly be used to get peoples attention, and also to validate ministry. I feel that the Scripture illustrates both principles. ( I can provide the references if requested, just for the sake of time I'll not do it unless requested). On the matter of stewardship. I believe the same principles apply to all our finances, whether gained thru "secular" means or thru funding provided thru voluntary giving. I'd go so far as to say that there is a lot more concern regarding the commercialization of many Christian materials than voluntary offerings and such.. not that I am in a position to judge that, but rather it strikes me that often times the "big name" ministries that operate on voluntary contributions recieve a lot more criticism than many music artists, authors, etc making quite a bit of money through the actual selling of the material. However, since no one is FORCING anyone to buy them, well then.. I guess it is a bit of a grey area, if it is a concern at all. Anyways... back to my point and what I agree with. Those who are financially blessed have a huge responsibility in stewardship as the Bible states clearly in a number of places. This holds true no matter what the source of that revenue. I also know people who literally give 90 percent of all they recieve to the work of the Kingdom, and are still quite wealthy. That too seems like a spiritual principle. |
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15 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 90995 | ||
Elijah_Jones The "Big Name" ministries as you call them often mnaipulate the people into giving into their ministries by telling the people they can expect a 100 fold return on their money. I once watched a man sit at the piano and tell the TV audience the if they sent 1000 dollars God would give them their greatest desire what it ever it was. He did this for over an hour and raised an unbelievable sum of money. That is where I have problems. I would have rather seen him charge 100 dollars for his records than to have done what he did. EdB |
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16 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 91016 | ||
That sounds like it was most likely an abuse of the principle. But if someone abuses a specific principle for personal gain, that does not render the basic principle void. We see in the new testament believers being asked to give to the needs of the body of Christ, but then we also see those asking people to give working hard to support themselves so that they might not give the appearance of "fleecing the sheep". That is also balanced by the "worker is worthy of his wages" principle. As with anything, when selfish motives and desires come into play, the pure and beautiful principles of God can become twisted and harmful. I am saddened that such a practice would be considered to be part of the various principles we have been discussing here. I would emphatically state that it is not, but rather appears to be a blatant abuse. God alone can judge this particular instance you mention, but I would not want to be in his shoes if he was acting on his own selfish reasons. I don't really see a precedant in scripture that giving a specific amount of money (apart from the tithe situation) was ever rewarded with "the desire of ones heart".. so if I were forced to judge this situation, I would judge it as false. |
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