Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24358 | ||
Well, I'll tell you, the version I'm looking at - the official version - does not say what you've typed here. It only says church, not Roman Catholic Church. What is meant by this? That man need a group. Unity. It is better for us to reach out to God together. You guys sure got busy. Excellent debates going on here. But I think Dear Charis brings up a very excellent point in dropping denominational differences. I asked Hank some questions because he is thoughtful and open to it. He articulates very well. It was not my intention to stir up such a bees nest of debate over dogma. Back in the 60's Catholics went through a BIG change. The Vatican II reformation. Prior to that, a lot of what is still said of Catholics was true. We believed ourselves to be the end all be all way to get into heaven. Then the Pope through open the windows and proclaimed, "Children! Boy we messed up!" Lots of Catholics are still wrestling with that. This is the elitism I was whining about earlier. Blech. Denominations change. Church of England (Angelicans) were founded on divorce and murder. When the Pope refused to grant Henry the VII a divorce from his non-heir-producing wife, Henry declared himself sovereign of church and state. Church of England was born. No commandments. No values. He divorced his wife(s) and murdered a few. After him, King James came along and decided to put on the image of morality by taking the (then) official Catholic bible (and remember back then they were the only denomination) Douay Rheims Bible and making his own version. King James Version. Did they add morals? Nope. But they HAD a bible... Is the Church of England still immoral? NO WAY! Along came a queen who whipped them into shape. The point of my story? Don't judge us (Catholics) based on past mistakes. We've made them, and we've made a lot of them. And INDEED there are still Catholics out there seemingly IGNORANT of the reformation. I'll grant you that. So you keep on reading that book and pointing out "our" errors. Hopefully that will prompt a few more of them to investigate current church doctrine. Be Well, Lisa |
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2 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24370 | ||
Lisa, if this was taken out of a RCC catachism, they aren't gonna say RCC every time, they are referred to as church. Mama has the latest RCC catachism. She says that what it says. I come from a Cath background, I'm thru being duped by them. | ||||||
3 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | LisaMarie | 24410 | ||
As I said, I don't know what book you're reading, but it's not correct. How about you go to amazon.com, find the book you're refering to and post a link to it here? "the latest" doesn't necessarily refer to a church sanctioned document. Be well. Don't be angry. Every group has it's bad apples. Hugs, Lisa |
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4 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | There | 25479 | ||
Here's one that appears to be church sanctioned as of 1997. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm This on-line Second Edition English Translation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church includes the corrections promulgated by Pope John Paul II on 8 September 1997. These corrections to the English text of the Catechism of the Catholic Church were made to harmonize it with the official Latin text promulgated by Pope John Paul II on the same date. For details of the corrections, see the editio typica modifications to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. When you go to that site, click on the picture of the Catechism book. Then scroll down and click on "Article 9 - I Believe in the Holy Catholic Church", and you will find what I've copy and pasted below. PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH" 748 "Christ is the light of humanity; and it is, accordingly, the heart-felt desire of this sacred Council, being gathered together in the Holy Spirit, that, by proclaiming his Gospel to every creature, it may bring to all men that light of Christ which shines out visibly from the Church."135 These words open the Second Vatican Council's Dogmatic Constitution on the Church. By choosing this starting point, the Council demonstrates that the article of faith about the Church depends entirely on the articles concerning Christ Jesus. The Church has no other light than Christ's; according to a favorite image of the Church Fathers, the Church is like the moon, all its light reflected from the sun. 749 The article concerning the Church also depends entirely on the article about the Holy Spirit, which immediately precedes it. "Indeed, having shown that the Spirit is the source and giver of all holiness, we now confess that it is he who has endowed the Church with holiness."136 The Church is, in a phrase used by the Fathers, the place "where the Spirit flourishes."137 750 To believe that the Church is "holy" and "catholic," and that she is "one" and "apostolic" (as the Nicene Creed adds), is inseparable from belief in God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the Apostles' Creed we profess "one Holy Church" (Credo . . . Ecclesiam), and not to believe in the Church, so as not to confuse God with his works and to attribute clearly to God's goodness all the gifts he has bestowed on his Church.138 Then check out http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#III You may want to read from line 830-848 to get a better understanding of what the Catholic Catechism teaches as far as what/who the Catholic Church is, which also states what I've copied below. "Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336 Do you find this catechism book satisfactory? And just for the record, that last sentence up there "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it", is saying that I'm not saved because I left the Catholic Church. Did you catch that? |
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