Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24512 | ||
Joe I will list below the exact text of the 'Catechism of the Catholic Church'. 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day 842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . . From the section entitled: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" . 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body. 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: 848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men." .......................................................... http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm ....................................................... Joe, When Paul converted the Gentiles to Christianity, the Church of Jerusalem insisted that these Gentiles worship according to Hebrew Tradition. Paul said no, only the belief in Christ, and all He taught, was needed for salvation. This caused a stir within the Churches. And, at the next council meeting of the Churches, it was debated and ultimately agreed by all (some grudgingly), that there would be cultural differences within the different Churches (Rome vs Jerusalem, etc)and the Apostles agreed upon usng, what is now known as 'The Apostles Creed' as the unifying Profession of Faith. As long as a Christian agreed with the twelve points within this Creed, he was living in communion with Christians from all other churches, throughout the world. And, basicly, any other practices beyond the beliefs of the creed, was unimportant. I took a short survey of this forum to see if anyone had any disagreements with the Apostles Creed - and basicly, I think the Christians on this forum, from many Churches were in agreement with it. So, since the Catholics are in communion with other Christian Churches, what difference does it make to you, if we think a Muslim has a chance at heaven - you and I aren't Muslims. And, the Gentiles can eat pork, if they want to. Brian |
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2 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 24568 | ||
Brian: Thanks. So looking at questions 846 and 847, am I to understand you as saying that, as a Protestant, Catholicism considers me as part of "the Church which is his Body"? That certainly wasn't the church position in the 1500s. So which "official church teaching" am I supposed to believe? That of Trent or that of Brian? You wrote: "And, basicly, any other practices beyond the beliefs of the creed, was unimportant." That is so completely false. If this is true, then why was there a great schism between the eastern and Western churches? Why was there a Protestant Reformation? Neither the Reformers nor the Eastern Orthodox church has ever denied the points of the Apostle's Creed. History simply proves you wrong. --Joe! |
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3 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24577 | ||
Joe, you might as well give up, it is very hard for a Cath to admit the word "I was wrong!" I would think that if a Cath has saving faith in Jesus, they would recognize the apostasy of the RCC and get out as fast as they could and take as many with them as they could, but they linger on regardless, it's just so hard to leave. I hated it, I recognized they lied to me and had no trouble leaving, there was no way I could get rest of family elders to leave, they all died in her except for my mother wgo finally left but after she has been put down, lied to, practically spit upon but she still stayed. She finally left when I started going to this Bapt church I go to now, she'd go to mass, then go w/me to my church. It was then she saw the differences. We actually preach from the Bible, they just run their mouth. She said the final straw was when she was griping to preist about how all the seniors want to do for their field trips was so to FL to buy lottery tickets or go to Biloxi for casinos. The priest told her that life is a gamble, we gamble on whether we're getting to heaven or not. She said that's when it truly struck her, if they don't know where they're going, why is she staying here??? She left and now is a baptized born again Christian going to a Baptist church! There are many born again Christians in our church that used to be Cath, one just died recently and our Bible teacher was telling her testimony and is comparing what Cath believe, we are studying justification now. Here's a quick few about what Cath believe about justification: Justification is God's act of making man righteous by good works and obedience (we say faith). Justification is achieved bu faith and good works (we say faith alone). Justification can be increased by receiving more sacraments (we say perfect righteousness of Christ). Final justification is not determined until death (we say faith in Jesus). Emphasis on sacraments (we say Christ's verdict). |
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4 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24582 | ||
Norrie "The priest told her that life is a gamble, we gamble on whether we're getting to heaven or not" I suspect either the priest was misunderstood or his words did not properly convey his thought. There is a passage from Paul in which he stated that Ministers of Christ have an extra responsibilty for proper teaching and they will be judged harsher by God, than the average person. I honestly question whether God could judge a Minister any harsher than he is judged by his congregation. By the way, the role of a Bible teacher is to teach the word of God. Why does yours spend so much time performing a comparative analysis of the Catholic Church - I urge you to help that teacher refocus on his responsibility to his students. One last thing, Good Works in Catholocism means - living and acting as Christ would - act as a Christian - which Christian Church holds a different view point to that. Don't just proclaim your Chrisitanity - live it. Now, you can teach your teacher. Brian |
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5 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24642 | ||
Brain, what you don't seem to grasp is that I was born and raised Cath, I come from a family w/priests and archbishops, there was hardly a time the doors opened that we weren't there. I made As in religion classes at Cath school. I've been there, done that. I disagree totally with the RCC. After I figured out they were lying to me, I rebelled and became a total heathen for about a decade, even during Satanic worship phase, we were going to break into my cath church because everything you needed for Black Mass was there-what does that tell you? Later on when I was being witnessed to by Christians and shown literature defaming occult and Cath church, wonder why I immediately tied the two together? Been there, done that! After I accepted Jesus I tried my best to convince my Cath family to leave the RCC, that it was demonic and preached apostasy-get out!!! But they were entrenched, just like you are, wouldn't open their eyes to see the lies and deceit. They used that but we love Jesus line as they prayed to Mary and different saints. Well, duh, if you really loved Jesus, you would do what He says, not what He says not to do!!! By their fruits you shall know them. Have you considered God maybe led you here to hear the Truth and get you out of there? When you compare their teaching to the Bible, they are wrong!!! I'm not saying they are only ones wrong either, like that Bible teacher said today, there is a Pres. church that he went to that teaches salvation thru Baptism, he's a Gideon and was there to do a funeral, he was allowed 5 min to speak, he said preacher mentioned 5 times about salvation thru baptism. But he said there another Pres. church that doesn't believe that way so you can't say all do. Then there was a 34 yr old Meth woman who was drunk and got killed by ramming headon into another car in opposite lane, at her funeral the preacher was saying there is still hope for her because she was baptized. There are other Meth churches that doesn't teach that too. Baptism doesn't equal salvation. It is what you do as a sign to show that you are a follower of Jesus, it does not save you, it is symbolic. That is why a baby can't be baptized, you have to be old enough to know what you're doing by accepting Jesus as your Savior. Another woman was saying some lady paid her 19 yr old 100 dollars to get baptized because she was living w/some guy, done had an abortion, and she was worried her daughter would go to hell w/o baptism. I'm sure that really took-not! But, see, I wasn't raised Meth or Pres, I was raised Cath so I know what I was taught, I can only speculate of these other denom but I know Cath and I know they are wrong. There are many good people in the Cath church who are just deceived by the heirachy, they sincerely believe what they are taught and they are taught wrong!!! That is how Satan drags millions of good people to hell, just feeds them a tad of truth in w/apostasy so they never accept Jesus as they should because they just don't know any better. I heard last year between 12/12-1/3 the pope was selling indulgences, that was supposed to have been done away with by Vat II but it wasn't, it's just a cover up, duping all those millions of Cath. I saw pics of pope leading procession around w/Mary on a litter, proclaiming Mary. It's same old same old. And you're gonna stay there and defend it? Open your eyes!!! If you really love Jesus and accepted Him as Savior, obey His Words and get out of there and take as many with you as you can when you leave! Think, Brian, they even changed the commandments so they can worship their graven images. I still can't get the numbers of the commandments right because I've been taught the Cath way! What does that tell you right there? #4 is not Honor your father and mother, that is really #5-look it up!!! Please, Brian, think about it, let Holy Spirit convict you and get out!!! They are leading their people straight to hell! |
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6 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24646 | ||
Norrie I do believe you received all A's in religion in grade school. But, at that time in your life you were learning about God, the way a child learns about God. It was taught to you, the child, as a child. To a child and to some adults, Jesus and God, at times, seem so large and sometimes, beyond reach. To these people, the Church presents Christians who have gone before us and Mary, as role models. Not as figures to be worshipped, but role models. Because of a child's relation with their own mother, sometimes it is easier for the child to relate to the mother of Jesus - which in turn, gently brings the child in Jesus' world. Some children need this, some don't. The Saints, well - I like to think of them as the super heroes of Christianity - they are great role models for children to look up to. By seeing how these role models have applied there Christian values to their own lives, gives a child an opportunity to understand Christianity in more human, and easier to understand ways. This does bring the child closer into the world of Jesus. Again, some children need this extra step in understanding Christianity, some children don't. What becomes a problem, is when children become adults, but they still continue to view these role models, the relationship with Jesus and their responsibilties, through the eyes of children. As an child, I should look up to these role models of the Church, to help develop my relationship with the Father. But, as an adult, I should be living my life as a peer to those that came before me; I should now be the role model for the next generation of children. It is a difficult, when an adult still looks through the eyes of a child. Their understanding of their religion is incomplete, they tend to glorify saints beyond the high-level of respect to which they are entitled and in general, their understanding and perspective is very limited. Commandment #4 being #5 - to the adult, the important part is that people know the 10 commandments. To the child, the order is equally important. Norrie, I am happy you have found a relationship with Jesus - that is the important thing. I sincerely hope that it is giving you the peace and happiness within your life, which you deserve. Brian |
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7 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Norrie | 24653 | ||
No, Brian, I'm talking about a priest standing before us in religion class in HS saying the Bible was written to counteract mythology type stuff. You wrote like I never grew up, just remained a child understanding on childish levels, let me assure you, that is not so! I brought some noncath friends to an Easter svc one time and they did actually change the Easter story and believe me, I knew my gospels, then then had this faggy guy I knew from drama club reading that section, that was the final straw then. I was around thru Vat II, I liked the Latin mass, I sang in the choir, it lost something to me changing it to English, sure couldn't sing the responses right either. Then how about that rollcall of saints they called out during that one svc durting that time, saints you never even heard of and we're singing for them to pray for us. I've been to numerous crowning of Mary svcs, novenas, etc. I've said the rosary more times than I could count, kneeling as a family in front of our own little idol. No thanks, you can stay there if you want but you're wasting your breath if you think you can convince me about how right the RCC is, I know. Explain to me how the Pope when speaking from the Chair of Peter is infallible, he may have been thinking one thing, but when he speaks from Chair, he speaks the truth. When people are cannonized, the pope is speaking from chair. Then all of a sudden, they decided St. Christopher didn't exist. So, was the pope that declared him a saint infallible or was the one who said it was a myth infallible? They both can't be right. Besides, Jesus isn't a baby anymore so St. C couldn't have carried him on his shoulders anyway-more lies! Then how many Mary's they gonna have? They got Mary's in every color, sometimes several of each, I guess each nationality has to have their own. Brain, can't you see you're being duped? You sound like a Jesuit-are you? Then I did read the Chick stuff and unfortunately, he was dead on. He even had a tract about Cath that he said they were trying to remove and sure enough I went to buy more and they were removed, I asked about them and they had a few under the counter, it happened just like he said. Seems to me a real Christian would be defending the Bible before any denomination. The Word is what Jesus says, not what any particular denom says and when you're denom is the end all, maybe you made that denom into an idol in itself? Isn't that what JWs do? Islam? Think about it. I wouldn't die defending the Baptists but I would die defending Jesus, isn't that the way it should be? |
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8 | "Once Saved Always Saved" | NT general Archive 1 | Brian.g | 24670 | ||
Norrie I'll end this discussion with a thought. As I mentioned earlier, the Catholic Church isn't even close to finding the new expanded boundaries created by Vatican II - there is much opportunity for us to open the Church to more people. You were around during Vatican II. I am around to implement Vatican II. You lost something when the Mass was changed from Latin to the language of the community - Catholics all over the world gained, when they could now understand and participate in the celebration. A child likes the melody of the language - an adult values the content. Brian |
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