Results 1 - 17 of 17
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | disciplerami | 74641 | ||
John, I believe in the unsearchable ways of God, but some things are not a mystery. We can have insight into the mysteries if we read the things revealed by the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 3). A pre-ordained death penalty is fatalism if condemned man did not have a chance to avoid it.' The Ephesians passage you quote speaks of being "predestinated" according to His will. I agree with this. Those who hear the Gospel and obey it, are conformed to the will of God. It is God's predestined will that all men have the chance of salvation in Jesus Christ, His Son. Any and all who respond in faith will be saved, and are therefore conformed to His will. God's Soveriegn will is given its due and man's free will is left intact. Yes, He has mercy on whom He chooses and He hardens whom He chooses. But who does He choose? Those who are hardened by the simplicity of the Gospel, He hardens. Those who are like babes, believing and obeying the Gospel, He has mercy upon them. God is Sovereign and He decides who is saved: those who conform to His will. Good day. |
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2 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74648 | ||
Brian, I agree that the revelation of the mysteries of God is an continually unfolding of His truth. If one has been a christian for any length of time at all, he has experieced the enlightening power of the Holy Spirit overturning carnal ideas with spiritual. This does not mean we will ever (even in eternity) be able to fully comprehend God. There is much that is "passed finding out". The problem with your reasoning is that it places the cause of regeneration as a result of the will of man. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. God does not save good people; He saves sinners. Sinners are wicked and have carnal minds and hearts of stone. Read the passages that deal with fallen man. Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. You believe that I err in my understanding od "predestined" from EPH 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will." You claim: "It is God's predestined will that all men have the chance of salvation in Jesus Christ, His Son." Like a good Berean, I must ask you for your evidence from Scripture. John |
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3 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | disciplerami | 74672 | ||
Dear Sir, My position does not contradict this passage which you quoted: John 1:13 "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." It is not necessary that I believe I'm saving myself if I'm baptized 'for the remission of sins.' My faith is in the working of God who raised me from the dead to walk in newness of life. You ask for Scripture and I use the same ones you quote. I have not said that we are without sinner, that God only saves sinless men. I know that Jesus came to saved the lost, and Paul was chief among them. But you have not proven that sinners cannot choose to do the will of God. Good day. |
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4 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74749 | ||
Dear disciplerami, I must confess to being a bit confused. I thought that you believed that man was free to choose or reject the the gospel offer of salvation through faith in Jesus. I know that the arminian position holds that the work of the Holy Spirit is an essential component, but, that in the end man must make the all-important choice. Their position on free-will inevitably leads to the conclusion that eternal-life depends on the will of man. He will or he will not "accept" the gospel. You stated: "My faith is in the working of God who raised me from the dead to walk in newness of life." I believe it as well. I think that where we disagree is, in the final analysis, upon whose will does salvation become to pass. If I am saved because of something I do as an unregenerate man (accept Christ), or am lost because of something I do (reject Christ) then the inescapable conclusion must be that I am saved or lost as a result of what I will! You said: "But you have not proven that sinners cannot choose to do the will of God." The following verses are just a few proof texts that I offer in support of natural (unregenerate) man's inability to choose spiritual good. JOH 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 1CO 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. TIT 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. This is why I believe that God has chosen a people to give to His Son. He has mercy on whom He will have mercy. This is a hated doctrine by many people. Many say that it makes God out to be unfair. I have had my own doubts as well. I labored over it for years trying to justify my conception of right and wrong with "election" and "pre-destination". The more I prayed and studied the Word, the more convinced I became that the evidence for these doctrines (which is overhelming) forced me to recieve them as God's truth. But what was at first bitter, has become sweeter than honey. I now rely on God alone and can say, along with Paul, I am what I am by the grace of God". 1 Cor 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. God Bless, John |
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5 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74761 | ||
John Once again I must say something, and I probably will be made to regret it as I do every discussion I enter on this subject. You said, "I know that the arminian position holds that the work of the Holy Spirit is an essential component, but, that in the end man must make the all-important choice. Their position on free-will inevitably leads to the conclusion that eternal-life depends on the will of man. He will or he will not "accept" the gospel." I say accepting or not accepting the gospel is not the issue. The issue is belief in Jesus Christ. Man has free will to believe or not to beleive in Jesus Christ as his Savior. If he believes then his salvation is assured John 3:16 if he does not believe then he is lost. That is man's free choice. That is Armininanism, standing firm on John 3:16. EdB |
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6 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74773 | ||
Dear Ed, I beg to differ. The basis on which one is saved is on their response to he gospel. To those who are being saved it is the power of God unto salvation. But to those who are perishing, it is foolishness: 1 Cor 1:18 "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." While it is true that the gospel is to be preached to "all men", it is also true that not "all men" will believe. The question then becomes: Why do some believe, but others do not? Paul said " And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (2 Cor 4:3,4). This is why in my post to disciplerami, I said that only those chosen by the will God are saved. The spiritually blind cannot recieve the light of the gospel unless by being raised to spiritual life, they recieve spiritual sight. Until that takes place (according to God's mercy) they will remain dead to the Word. "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (1 Cor 2:14) Many christins today believe that it would be unfair of God, if He does not give every man an equal opportunity to repent and believe the gospel. They overlook the fact that all of fallen mankind are guilty sinners deserving of nothing from God except judgement for "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Rom 3:23) But God, because of His mercy alone, chose to save some. Not because they were better or had any good thing in them, but because of His own good pleasure. Is 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure' God could have chosen to save everyone. But He did not. Who am I to question what He has done? God forbid that I would accuse Him of anything that was not just, holy, loving or less than perfect. The only answers I have come not from human reason or human wisdom, but from Scripture. He raises the dead to life in accordance to His will not their's. Ezek 37:13,14 "Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.'" John |
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7 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74777 | ||
John There is a flaw in what your presenting, it contradicts easily understood scripture found elsewhere. We know scripture does not contradict itself so the problem has to be how we are interpreting scripture. John 3:16 is very basic and hard to misinterpret so let's start there. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. It does not say anything about the gospel or the willingness of our spirits. It does not say for God so loved the elect whose sprit He conditions to accept the gospel and to whom He gave His only begotten Son that only the elect can and must believe and therefore shall not perish but have eternal life. There is only one condition shown in John 3:16 that is man's belief in God's Son for their salvation. Nothing more or nothing less. Therefore moving forward we have to examine 2 Cor. 4:3,4 and 1 Cor. 2:14 the scriptures you quoted in that light. Since they do appear to say what you are saying we have a problem since they also contradict John 3:16. However if we interpret these scriptures to say basically what you saying but we conditioned them by the fact the are not talking about an unregenerate person but rather a saved person that has put his belief in Christ all contradiction is removed. There my friend lies your problem your taking scripture that applies to a saved person and trying to make them apply to a unregenerated person. Of course to the unsaved Scripture is foolishness, of course to the unsaved the scripture is veiled, but once we believe in Christ just like Paul the scales fall from our eyes and we see the truth of the Gospel. In the future take your scriptures and hold them revealing light of John 3:16 if they don't stand in perfect agreement then your reading your scripture wrong. God said by man's belief in his son would man be saved. Nothing more nothing less. Add nothing subtract nothing. EdB |
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8 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74782 | ||
Hi Ed, I have a big surpise for you! I disagree :-). John 3:16 Says anyone who believes will be saved. Amen! I believe that with all my heart. The question we are dealing with is, however, On what basis does belief arise in the heart of an unregenerate (natural) person. 2 Cor 2:14 is written to christians but the subject is "the natural man". Cor 2:10 For to US (those who have been born again) God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. (emphasis mine) Paul is teaching the christians at Corinth that God revealed sriptural truth to them through the Holy Spirit. (which supports my belief that one must be born again and have the Spirit indwelling him, before he is able to recieve and believe the gospel). He then contrasts the believing Corinthians with the natural man (one who has not the Spirit and is in fact a spiritual cadaver). 1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. Therfore Ed, I must disagree that there is any contradiction between John 3:16 and 1 Cor 2:14. 2 Cor 4: 3,4 is again addressed to christians, but the subject is "those who are perishing". Furthermore, these verses agree with 1 Cor 2:14. 2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. Paul clearly states that those who are perishing (as oppossed to those who are being saved) have the gospel veiled to them. They can't see the truth of it. Veiled : The greek Kalupto which means covered or concealed Do you still see a contradiction? Your Brother, John |
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9 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74790 | ||
John Your adding conditions to John 3:16 and you can't do that. That my friend is where we separate our theology. I say we come to Christ in faith, you say we come to Christ in the knowledge that God only gives to the elect. Salvation to me is by grace to you it is election. I say John 3:16 says what it means and anyone with even minimal reading comprehension can understand it. You say it means something different and we need your definition to fully understand it. I say God’s word is complete, you say we must add conditions for it to be correct. I say a man could be left with nothing but the Bible and find salvation you say he must be elected. I believe world means world you believe it means only the elect. I believe all means all you believe it means only elect. Once more we reach an impasse. What is left to say? EdB |
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10 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74793 | ||
Dear Ed, If you do not want to discuss the topic...fine. But your previous post complained that the verses I used as proof texts could not be used because Paul in,1 Cor 2:14 and 2 Cor 4:3,4, was speaking to christians. I then pointed out that in both passages the subject was not christians but the natural man in 1 cor and the perishing in 2 Cor. Instead of addressing my points, you simply ignore your error and continue to mis-characterize what I believe: Examples: "I say we come to Christ in faith, you say we come to Christ in the knowledge that God only gives to the elect." "Salvation to me is by grace to you it is election." "I say John 3:16 says what it means and anyone with even minimal reading comprehension can understand it. You say it means something different and we need your definition to fully understand it." "I say God’s word is complete, you say we must add conditions for it to be correct." " I say a man could be left with nothing but the Bible and find salvation you say he must be elected." "I believe world means world you believe it means only the elect. I believe all means all you believe it means only elect" The impasse is your refusal to judge what I said by the Word alone. Rather, you put words in my mouth and knock down strawmen of your own construction. I am not angry with you Ed...just disappointed. God Bless, John |
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11 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74796 | ||
John John I certainly didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I thought I was saying what your saying only not couched in the same words you use. I do not see a condition in John 3:16 that a person has to understand the gospel to be saved, you apparently do. I didn't address any error on my part as I didn't see that you revealed any. You came back and said both these verses are talking about an unregenerated person I agree both these verses are talking about unregenerate people not people that believe in Christ. As an unregenerate person the scripture is foolishness that is a statement of fact no matter who the audience is. An unregenerate person will not understand the gospel it is veiled to him that is a statement of fact no matter who the audience was. Your saying when a person is born his ultimate fate has been decided, no matter what he does or does not do. If he is elected he will understand the gospel, he will accept it and he will have eternal life. If on the other hand he is not elected he can’t understand the gospel, he can’t accept it and he is condemned to damnation. Not because of what he did or did not do, other than being born of which he had no choice, but rather because he was not elected. To me that renders John 3:16 inaccurate, for John 3:16 to be accurate in the light of this it would have to read. For God so loved the elect that He gave His only begotten Son that who ever was elected and therefore believed in Him would not perish and have eternal life. If you showed me where John 3:16 said that or hinted that, I missed it and I would like you, please, to show me again. And no I do not have an interest in discussing this. The position you hold has summarily been rejected by over two thirds of Christianity and is on the decline. To me your position is indefensible. However I can not let it stand without rebuttal when you try to present as supported by scripture. EdB |
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12 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74804 | ||
Dear Ed, Keep in mind that you inserted yourself in the topic for the pupose of correcting what you see as incorrect (to say the least) interpretation of Scripture: "The position you hold has summarily been rejected by over two thirds of Christianity and is on the decline". Happily for the church at large, sound theology does not rest on the numbers of people that think it to be true. I do not care a whit, if 99.9 per cent think it wrong. What counts is whether or not it is supported by Scripture. As an aside: take a good, long look at the state of the church in the 21st century, and then tell me about the great progress that the abandonment of the theology of the Reformers has wrought! You wrote:"I do not see a condition in John 3:16 that a person has to understand the gospel to be saved, you apparently do". In the first place: How can a person believe something he does'nt even understand? And in the second place: (1 Cor 2:14) But a natural man DOES NOT ACCEPT the things of the Spirit of God, for THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS TO HIM;" "Your saying when a person is born his ultimate fate has been decided,"....It does'nt matter what I said. what matters is what saith the Lord. "no matter what he does or does not do. If he is elected he will understand the gospel, he will accept it and he will have eternal life. If on the other hand he is not elected he can’t understand the gospel, he can’t accept it and he is condemned to damnation. Not because of what he did or did not do, other than being born of which he had no choice, but rather because he was not elected." "... .I never said that Ed. What I say is: that fallen man does not and will not ever desire Christ at the expense of his own autonomy. As we have seen it is all foolishness to him and he cannot understand why any sane person would believe in such a thing. On the other hand, if a person does desire Christ,repents of his sin and places his faith in Christ that is a sure sign that he is one of God's elect. The Lord said: "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" (John 6:37). "To me that renders John 3:16 inaccurate, for John 3:16 to be accurate in the light of this it would have to read. For God so loved the elect that He gave His only begotten Son that who ever was elected and therefore believed in Him would not perish and have eternal life." Question Ed. Who besides the elect of God are saved? John |
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13 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74812 | ||
John Perhaps you will take the time to enlighten me as to when the thief on the cross was schooled in theology and taught the Gospel. Yet the Lord said this day you will be with Me in paradise. John, fallen man can't understand what he needs the Holy Spirit to enlighten to him. Or are you suggesting the Holy Spirit inhabits the unredeemed? Man can understand the sin in his life and the need for salvation. He can be shown that Jesus died for his sins and that by believing in Jesus for his salvation he will not perish. Who besides the elect of God are saved? As the name implies no one, once you are saved your become God's elect. Your whole premise of election is so nonsensical it would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that there are those that believe it and stop having a productive life in Christ. EdB |
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14 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74815 | ||
"Perhaps you will take the time to enlighten me as to when the thief on the cross was schooled in theology and taught the Gospel. Yet the Lord said this day you will be with Me in paradise." The gospel was made known to the thief. Here is the exchange, and keep in mind they are dying on crosses as they are speaking: 'But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"' --Luke 23:40-42 He knew of Jesus' sinlessness, and the fact that Jesus was coming into His kingdom even as His life was slipping away. Seems that in some ways the thief grasped the gospel better than some of the Twelve did. He didn't go to seminary, but the Holy Spirit did His work in the thief. You wrote: "Man can understand the sin in his life and the need for salvation. He can be shown that Jesus died for his sins and that by believing in Jesus for his salvation he will not perish." The Bible says: "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God....But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." --1 Corinthians 2:10, 14 A person can be SHOWN something, but that is different than saying someone receives it as personal truth. People can even recognize the gospel without embracing it (James 2:19). I know plenty of people who can explain the gospel back to me quite well but who reject it either as truth or as something they do not want. And it is the personal trust in Christ by faith that is the result of the Spirit's work. You wrote: "Who besides the elect of God are saved? As the name implies no one, once you are saved your become God's elect." So your answer to John's question is "no one"? Please correct me if I have misunderstood. You wrote: "Your whole premise of election is so nonsensical it would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that there are those that believe it and stop having a productive life in Christ." Ed, would you mind sharing for me exactly who these people are? Believing it certainly didn't slow down the Puritans or William Carey or John Newton or William Wilberforce or Adoniram Judson or Jonathan Edwards or Charles Spurgeon or Francis Schaeffer or John MacArthur (or Reformer Joe, for that matter). Who are all of these once-productive individuals shipwrecked by a CLEAR understanding of Reformation theology? Thanks! --Joe! |
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15 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74832 | ||
Joe Aw come on you know very well many sit in the pew and do nothing cause their pastor has them convinced unless someone is elected they can't be saved. EdB |
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16 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74856 | ||
Many (both Calvinists and Arminians) will search for excuses to justify disobeying God. Taking one aspect of the truth and ignoring or rejecting everything else does not make one a disciple of Jesus Christ. One could turn around and say that many Arminians do not evangelize certain people (i.e. those who seem the farthest away from righteousness) because "they would never receive Jesus Christ." I am sure you are as critical of such attitudes as I am of those who misuse Reformed theology as an excuse for inaction. You didn't answer my question, however. What "gung-ho" Christians are you aware of that become "do-nothing" Christians as a result of embracing Reformation theology? And how do you explain the exemplary lives of the Calvinists I mentioned in my last post, those who obey(ed) the Great Commission not IN SPITE OF their Reformed beliefs, but rather BECAUSE OF them? Thanks! --Joe! |
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17 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74869 | ||
Joe this statement in light of your doctrine is nonsense. What makes a Christian is election what doesn't in none election. There is no choice, no obedience, no love - just election. If your elected you have to be saved if your not nothing on this earth can save you. That sure puts a damper on the zeal for evangelism. EdB |
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