Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74793 | ||
Dear Ed, If you do not want to discuss the topic...fine. But your previous post complained that the verses I used as proof texts could not be used because Paul in,1 Cor 2:14 and 2 Cor 4:3,4, was speaking to christians. I then pointed out that in both passages the subject was not christians but the natural man in 1 cor and the perishing in 2 Cor. Instead of addressing my points, you simply ignore your error and continue to mis-characterize what I believe: Examples: "I say we come to Christ in faith, you say we come to Christ in the knowledge that God only gives to the elect." "Salvation to me is by grace to you it is election." "I say John 3:16 says what it means and anyone with even minimal reading comprehension can understand it. You say it means something different and we need your definition to fully understand it." "I say God’s word is complete, you say we must add conditions for it to be correct." " I say a man could be left with nothing but the Bible and find salvation you say he must be elected." "I believe world means world you believe it means only the elect. I believe all means all you believe it means only elect" The impasse is your refusal to judge what I said by the Word alone. Rather, you put words in my mouth and knock down strawmen of your own construction. I am not angry with you Ed...just disappointed. God Bless, John |
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2 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74796 | ||
John John I certainly didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I thought I was saying what your saying only not couched in the same words you use. I do not see a condition in John 3:16 that a person has to understand the gospel to be saved, you apparently do. I didn't address any error on my part as I didn't see that you revealed any. You came back and said both these verses are talking about an unregenerated person I agree both these verses are talking about unregenerate people not people that believe in Christ. As an unregenerate person the scripture is foolishness that is a statement of fact no matter who the audience is. An unregenerate person will not understand the gospel it is veiled to him that is a statement of fact no matter who the audience was. Your saying when a person is born his ultimate fate has been decided, no matter what he does or does not do. If he is elected he will understand the gospel, he will accept it and he will have eternal life. If on the other hand he is not elected he can’t understand the gospel, he can’t accept it and he is condemned to damnation. Not because of what he did or did not do, other than being born of which he had no choice, but rather because he was not elected. To me that renders John 3:16 inaccurate, for John 3:16 to be accurate in the light of this it would have to read. For God so loved the elect that He gave His only begotten Son that who ever was elected and therefore believed in Him would not perish and have eternal life. If you showed me where John 3:16 said that or hinted that, I missed it and I would like you, please, to show me again. And no I do not have an interest in discussing this. The position you hold has summarily been rejected by over two thirds of Christianity and is on the decline. To me your position is indefensible. However I can not let it stand without rebuttal when you try to present as supported by scripture. EdB |
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3 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | John Reformed | 74804 | ||
Dear Ed, Keep in mind that you inserted yourself in the topic for the pupose of correcting what you see as incorrect (to say the least) interpretation of Scripture: "The position you hold has summarily been rejected by over two thirds of Christianity and is on the decline". Happily for the church at large, sound theology does not rest on the numbers of people that think it to be true. I do not care a whit, if 99.9 per cent think it wrong. What counts is whether or not it is supported by Scripture. As an aside: take a good, long look at the state of the church in the 21st century, and then tell me about the great progress that the abandonment of the theology of the Reformers has wrought! You wrote:"I do not see a condition in John 3:16 that a person has to understand the gospel to be saved, you apparently do". In the first place: How can a person believe something he does'nt even understand? And in the second place: (1 Cor 2:14) But a natural man DOES NOT ACCEPT the things of the Spirit of God, for THEY ARE FOOLISHNESS TO HIM;" "Your saying when a person is born his ultimate fate has been decided,"....It does'nt matter what I said. what matters is what saith the Lord. "no matter what he does or does not do. If he is elected he will understand the gospel, he will accept it and he will have eternal life. If on the other hand he is not elected he can’t understand the gospel, he can’t accept it and he is condemned to damnation. Not because of what he did or did not do, other than being born of which he had no choice, but rather because he was not elected." "... .I never said that Ed. What I say is: that fallen man does not and will not ever desire Christ at the expense of his own autonomy. As we have seen it is all foolishness to him and he cannot understand why any sane person would believe in such a thing. On the other hand, if a person does desire Christ,repents of his sin and places his faith in Christ that is a sure sign that he is one of God's elect. The Lord said: "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" (John 6:37). "To me that renders John 3:16 inaccurate, for John 3:16 to be accurate in the light of this it would have to read. For God so loved the elect that He gave His only begotten Son that who ever was elected and therefore believed in Him would not perish and have eternal life." Question Ed. Who besides the elect of God are saved? John |
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4 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74812 | ||
John Perhaps you will take the time to enlighten me as to when the thief on the cross was schooled in theology and taught the Gospel. Yet the Lord said this day you will be with Me in paradise. John, fallen man can't understand what he needs the Holy Spirit to enlighten to him. Or are you suggesting the Holy Spirit inhabits the unredeemed? Man can understand the sin in his life and the need for salvation. He can be shown that Jesus died for his sins and that by believing in Jesus for his salvation he will not perish. Who besides the elect of God are saved? As the name implies no one, once you are saved your become God's elect. Your whole premise of election is so nonsensical it would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that there are those that believe it and stop having a productive life in Christ. EdB |
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5 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74815 | ||
"Perhaps you will take the time to enlighten me as to when the thief on the cross was schooled in theology and taught the Gospel. Yet the Lord said this day you will be with Me in paradise." The gospel was made known to the thief. Here is the exchange, and keep in mind they are dying on crosses as they are speaking: 'But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"' --Luke 23:40-42 He knew of Jesus' sinlessness, and the fact that Jesus was coming into His kingdom even as His life was slipping away. Seems that in some ways the thief grasped the gospel better than some of the Twelve did. He didn't go to seminary, but the Holy Spirit did His work in the thief. You wrote: "Man can understand the sin in his life and the need for salvation. He can be shown that Jesus died for his sins and that by believing in Jesus for his salvation he will not perish." The Bible says: "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God....But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." --1 Corinthians 2:10, 14 A person can be SHOWN something, but that is different than saying someone receives it as personal truth. People can even recognize the gospel without embracing it (James 2:19). I know plenty of people who can explain the gospel back to me quite well but who reject it either as truth or as something they do not want. And it is the personal trust in Christ by faith that is the result of the Spirit's work. You wrote: "Who besides the elect of God are saved? As the name implies no one, once you are saved your become God's elect." So your answer to John's question is "no one"? Please correct me if I have misunderstood. You wrote: "Your whole premise of election is so nonsensical it would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that there are those that believe it and stop having a productive life in Christ." Ed, would you mind sharing for me exactly who these people are? Believing it certainly didn't slow down the Puritans or William Carey or John Newton or William Wilberforce or Adoniram Judson or Jonathan Edwards or Charles Spurgeon or Francis Schaeffer or John MacArthur (or Reformer Joe, for that matter). Who are all of these once-productive individuals shipwrecked by a CLEAR understanding of Reformation theology? Thanks! --Joe! |
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6 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74832 | ||
Joe Aw come on you know very well many sit in the pew and do nothing cause their pastor has them convinced unless someone is elected they can't be saved. EdB |
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7 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74856 | ||
Many (both Calvinists and Arminians) will search for excuses to justify disobeying God. Taking one aspect of the truth and ignoring or rejecting everything else does not make one a disciple of Jesus Christ. One could turn around and say that many Arminians do not evangelize certain people (i.e. those who seem the farthest away from righteousness) because "they would never receive Jesus Christ." I am sure you are as critical of such attitudes as I am of those who misuse Reformed theology as an excuse for inaction. You didn't answer my question, however. What "gung-ho" Christians are you aware of that become "do-nothing" Christians as a result of embracing Reformation theology? And how do you explain the exemplary lives of the Calvinists I mentioned in my last post, those who obey(ed) the Great Commission not IN SPITE OF their Reformed beliefs, but rather BECAUSE OF them? Thanks! --Joe! |
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8 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | EdB | 74869 | ||
Joe this statement in light of your doctrine is nonsense. What makes a Christian is election what doesn't in none election. There is no choice, no obedience, no love - just election. If your elected you have to be saved if your not nothing on this earth can save you. That sure puts a damper on the zeal for evangelism. EdB |
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