Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 91582 | ||
After reading your replies and reflecting on the various discussions you have participated in, I have been led to conclude a few things. Firstly, you appear to operate on a fair amount of heresay and false conjecture. You are gathering much of your information from so-called "watchdog" societies. I would counsel you to begin to investigate these matters for yourself against the light of Scripture. The fact you attack Neil Anderson in the fashion you do tells me you have not read his work with any degree of objectivity, if you've read them at all. Don't take my word for it.. let me quote a well respected preacher, Chuck Swindoll, as he gives his opinion on the book I referenced. He states " A calm, practical, workable plan from Scripture that results in freedom and victory for the child of God. Neil Anderson is one of the most experienced and dependable authorities in America today". (quote from Chuck Swindoll concerning the book THE BONDAGE BREAKER) You incorrectly assert that Neil Anderson has a demon hiding behind every bush. You again assert, incorrectly, that our primary spiritual struggle is the flesh. I have first hand and extensive experience in seeing people freed from addictions and perversions that they were completely trapped in. I know of a man personally trapped in satanic ritual, homosexuality who was HIV positive. He was delivered and restored to the body of Christ. I was privelaged to be in attendance when he was cured of HIV.. and have the lab tests to prove it. If you had read the material, you would understand that Anderson asserts that the lusts of the flesh is what the lies of the enemy and his host use to cause the Child of God to be tempted and succumb to sin. The bible says this: Eph 6:10-20 This is one of the most clear and conscise statements in all of Scripture pertaining to our struggle against sin and the means to combat it. To discount the spiritual forces behind the deceptions we believe would be a grave error indeed. Anderson also states quite plainly the main weapon in the enemy's arsenal is DECEPTION.. and that the solution is to be armed with the TRUTH as laid out in scripture. Ed, I plead with you that you would discontinue your rails against people who's ministry has brought FAR more people to Christ and set them free in the truth of who we are in Christ, than you and I have. It is not fitting for the child of God to do so against his co-laborers. You are also repeatedly quoting excesses and abuses of the basic teachings as though the excesses in themselves ARE the teachings. That is no more true than the distortions brought forth by "conservative fundamentalists" that put a yoke of bondage upon people because they emphasize works over grace. I've seen as much or more spiritual abuse, guilt, and damage from those teachings as I have from charismatic or wof distortions. Yet, I would be foolish to condemn the basic tenets of the conservative fundamental orientations, as they are also based in truths of Scripture. It is only when we take them past the point of balance that they become an aberation to the truth of God. Finding that balance is the real trick, isn't it? The best illustration I can think of to clarify my point is this: How does one come to understand the severity of God's judgement and the breadth, width, and heighth of his mercy? We look at the cross. Where the terrible anger of God against sin meets the unrelenting mercy and forgiveness of God. Where the depravity of sin in man, responsible for placing God upon a tree to be mocked, tortured, and killed meets the words of Christ: "Father, forgive them.. for they know not what they do". One need not discount the severity and righteous judgement of God nor the mercies of God to the exclusion of the other.. even though without the picture of the cross it would be hard to understand how God has one foot firmly planted in both camps. So it often is with our foolish judgements and arguments in finding faults with those charged in restoring biblical truths lost to the church thru the dark ages and subsequent restoration of truths lost in that period. Lastly.. you charge me with lack of discernment. I would like you to prayerfully reconsider that accusation. Ed, I have no desire to argue with you and prove myself right and you wrong. I am sharing with you my understandings and some of my experiences. That doesn't, of itself, prove anything. It is just information for you to take and hopefully give thought to. I realize you have had to deal with the excesses and abuses of those who have twisted the basic tenets of the principles we've been discussing. I have too. I've also had to deal with tremendous shame and guilt within people that were raised in fundamental orthodox Christianity. Trust me when I say, it is just as damaging.. and in ways even MORE difficult to work through. |
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2 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | EdB | 91670 | ||
Elijah_Jones Discernment is a gift and when utilized correctly it can lead keep us from deception. If it is not used we tend to see things not as they are but as we would like to believe them to be. When we have people that understand this human trait and can paint pictures that are pleasing to our eyes we tend to ignore what they really say and listen only to what we want them to say. It is a trend that has haunted the church from the first century it is known as Gnosticism. Today it rears it’s ugly head by painting people themselves in quite perfect pictures. Their sin nature is overlooked and the problems are blamed elsewhere. Jesus spoke of this when we he warned that the time was coming when people would no longer look for sound doctrine, but seek instead the things that tickled their ears. Nobody wants to hear the problems they have are their own making because they refused to bridle their flesh, how much easier is it to blame their troubles on an unseen source of problems. Nobody wants to hear that living the Christian life is hard requiring sacrifices, they want to hear instead about the benefits. Your right I don listen to the watch dogs organizations. They are our watchmen on the walls, they warn us of the approaching enemy. The word says when the enemy comes and the watch remains silent the blood of the victims are on the watchman’s hands. However if the watchman sounds the alarm and the people fail to heed the warning their blood in on their own hands. These false teachers are peddling their wares in a very affluent society and they are becoming rich basically selling the gospel. Two things are interesting in this. First what they do only works here in the US, other nations either don’t have the money to interest them or know better than to suckered into buying what they sell. Second the people that say these teachers are picking your pockets are treated as the thieves while the pickpockets stand behind their victims and stick their tongue out. I was trained in Word of Faith Ministry, I know many of these preachers but more importantly I know how many live when not in the public view. I know how they talk about the flock, I know how they practice and rehearse, I know of what I speak. However I sense you are closed to what I’m saying so there is no point in going on. However if you ever find yourself without hope because the WOF formula has let you down. I will be here on the forum come back and we can talk. Be at peace, be a blessing to others EdB |
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3 | Knocked out by holy spirit | Matt 16:6 | Elijah_Jones | 91686 | ||
"Discernment is a gift and when utilized correctly it can lead keep us from deception." my response: Unfortunately, what is often referred to as discernment is nothing more than fear which stems from our trusting OUR ability to follow rather than the LORD'S ability to lead. Learning to recognize and trust the Lord's voice is the first step in true discernment. This is not a subjective thing, but rather an intimate familiarity that comes as we read the Word, pray, worship, and fellowship with the body of Christ. "Their sin nature is overlooked and the problems are blamed elsewhere" my response: I don't find much in the way of any of these teacher's teaching that excuses or placates sin. Quite the opposite, actually. In fact, obedience to the Lord is a very real requirement to experience the blessing of the Lord. "Jesus spoke of this when we he warned that the time was coming when people would no longer look for sound doctrine, but seek instead the things that tickled their ears." my response: These were doctrines of demons, being referred to.. or in other words, deceptions. Specifically, things like condoning or excusing the following: Sexual immorality, homosexuality, adultery, drunkeness, deciet, thieving, etc. The Word says that permission for these practices will enter the church. We need look no further than the headlines in the news today of ordinations taking place to see precisely what this warning is about. Nowhere does this warning imply that those who encourage the Body to take God's Word for what it means are guilty of this. And, by the way, I am not making a justifiable case for anyone that uses these basic teachings to line their own pockets from selfish ambitions. They will answer before the Lord on that matter. But their abuse does not constitute a flaw in the basic doctrine. In fact, Jesus said many would take the true practices of God to serve themselves without any allegiance or familiarity with Him. To them he said that they would cast out demons, perform miracles, and prophesy and yet he did not know them. That does not discount that all of these practices are Scriptural and necessary to the building up of the Kingdom. "Nobody wants to hear that living the Christian life is hard requiring sacrifices, they want to hear instead about the benefits." my response: Both sacrifice and blessings are required and bestowed upon the believer. We are in error when we believe otherwise. What precisely those sacrifices and blessings are, is really the crux of the matter, isn't it? "Your right I don listen to the watch dogs organizations." ( I assume you mean do and not don't, within the context of your argument) my response: Watch dogs are very different than watchman. Prophetically, I find it very interesting that these societies spend so much of their time accusing the body of Christ. You see, the difference between a watch dog and a watchman is profound. The dog will bark at every unfamiliarity to them, whether friend or foe. They lack true understanding and discernment except to what they are sure is already familiar to them in thier limited understanding. A watchman, on the other hand, examines the credentials of who approaches the gate and requests admittance. In this case, the credentials they must examine is the authenticity of the teaching against the light of Scripture. You trust these watchdog societies in their appraisals.. even though they often conflict amongst themselves. I do not do so, without first examining in light of Scripture humbly before the Lord for his admonition, correction, and direction. I find it interesting that the vast bulk of your argument is silent where Scripture is concerned. You speak of excesses and abuses that I have nowhere defended nor excused. Unfortunately, it appears some bad experiences have colored your discernment and perception on these matters, and you have thus thrown the baby out with the bathwater. As a wise and wonderful man of God once said to me.. "Eat the wheat, and spit out the chaff". The picture of these watchdogs barking at every preacher and teaching that doesn't fit their particular paradigm of religion is a very fitting and powerful allegory. (end of part one.. sorry for the long post. Continues in part two) |
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