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NASB | John 15:16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 15:16 "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you and I have appointed and placed and purposefully planted you, so that you would go and bear fruit and keep on bearing, and that your fruit will remain and be lasting, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name [as My representative] He may give to you. |
Subject: Bad Arguments Against Calvinism |
Bible Note: You wrote: "It seems like Calvinists forget that part, because they forget that our beliefs must coincide with the Old Testament as well as the New Testament." Yes, Calvin completely ignored the Old Testament! ;) I am really trying to be polite here, but the things you are saying are demonstrating a real ignorance of Reformed theology. And your analogy between Hebrew slavery and our slavery to sin is an extreme stretch for several reasons. First of all, the moral law of God does and always has applied to all human beings. However, the particular civil laws of the Mosaic Covenant with the nation of Israel were never binding on me. God made that particular covenant with the twelve tribes, not with me or any other Gentile. Secondly, since Paul was writing to the Romans (read: Gentiles), the Roman view of slavery was probably in view rather than the Hebrew version. And, in any case, your discussion of slavery in the Old Testament economy was left hanging there. What does that have to do with our slavery to sin, which only Christ frees us from? (and at least in my case, not ater seven years) I agree that man is both spirirually dead in sin, and a slave to sin. The rest of what you post here is gobbledygook which hinges on you reading a great deal into the biblical text which is simply not there (such as the soul/spirit distinction -- while it may be true, is not in view in Romans in the slightest). With the most respect I can muster, I will say that you have committed the error that I have seen most anti-Calvinists make on this forum. Knowing that many groan to see this debate revived in any form or fashion, I only tend to respond when someone really starts wrongly dividing the word of Truth to attack Reformation theology. You have done that here by denying God's ultimate sovereignty over all of His creation, by making ridiculous accusations that a small passage in one chapter of Romans is the entire basis of Reformed theology, by falsely asserting that Calvinists ignore the Old Testament (ever read Calvin's commentaries? Matthew Henry's?), and by asserting that Gentiles were at one time responsible for keeping the entire Sinaitic covenant (which I suppose would include circumcision, feast days, and animal sacrifice). I would suggest that you read a couple of books written from the Reformed perspective on the issue before coming back to respond. You are attacking straw men all over the place and you demonstrate virtually no knowledge of the biblical support for Reformed theology. Now, as convinced as I am of my position, it may turn out someday that I was wrong. However, you have done a very inadequate job of demonstrating any deficiencies Reformation theology may have. Three good books: Grace Unknown, by R.C. Sproul Willing to Believe, by R.C. Sproul The Potter's Freedom, by James R. White May God bless you. --Joe! |