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NASB | Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 23:43 Jesus said to him, "I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." [2 Cor 12:4; Rev 2:7] |
Subject: Jesus couldn't of gone up to heaven. |
Bible Note: Ed: You wrote: "First we don't know the answer to these questions and I'm quite sure we do not have a full understanding of God's mercy, love, grace or justice." I think we do have the answers to these questions in Scripture. I may never fully grasp the extent of God's grace, but I can trust what the Bible says about sin, judgment, everyone being without excuse before a holy God, and justification through faith in Christ and nothing else. As much as some would like a "God gives everyone a chance" scenario, it just can't be found in Scripture. ALL the Biblical evidence points against it. I would like to add one other corollary to the problem with the possibility of salvation for those who haven't heard. To me, if your scenario is true, it would be a horribly cruel thing to evangelize unreached peoples. If those who have not heard possibly have an excuse, then why make them hear, on the chance that they would reject the truth upon hearing it? Your scenario is one of the biggest arguments against evangelism, if it is true. You wrote: "God then revealed Himself to Abraham and Abraham had faith in the living God and his coming salvation. The rest of the story you know. A question remains, what would have happened to Abraham had not God spoken to him? We do not know." We could play "what if" games with every saint in history, and my answer will be the same: no special revelation means no salvation. God in his decree included Abraham as a key figure in His redemptive plan, so He made sure that Abraham heard and believed. You wrote: "Romans also says our God conscious gives us an understanding of righteousness, we understand what is right and what is wrong. Many recognize they fall short of that and then do penance, sacrifice whatever trying to make themselves acceptable. We call it pagan religions." Romans 2 does comment on the conscience, which also is part of general revelation. People innately know the difference between right and wrong. However, that serves to CONDEMN them, as Paul clearly shows in that chapter. The whole theme of Romans 1 and 2 is repeated time after time: all humans, Jews and Gentiles alike, are WITHOUT EXCUSE. They know God's attributes and character, they know the difference between right and wrong, and they consistently (apart from the Holy Spirit) choose the wrong. You wrote: "I guess the philosophical question then is, do any of these people realize they can not make themselves acceptable to God and then trust and have faith in God to make a way for them to be justified?" Not without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, who convinces the sinner of her helplessness and enlightens the mind and persuades the sinner to embrace the content of the gospel. It would not be very consistent of a sovereign God to send His Spirit to enlighten the mind and not send His gospel at the same time. If He can do one, He certainly can do both, wouldn't you say? "If so how does God do this?" Through His WORD and His Spirit, most often through His people. He does not save apart from the gospel's proclamation, even if He does it Himself (in the case of Abraham and that of Paul). You wrote: "What we do know is God has spoken to us, through the preaching of Jesus therefore we are without excuse." Read Romans 1 and 2 again. It is not the preaching of Jesus that leaves people without excuse. What leaves humans without excuse, according to the text? That is the whole point of the first three and a half chapters of Romans. --Joe! |