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NASB | Luke 22:42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done." |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 22:42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup [of divine wrath] from Me; yet not My will, but [always] Yours be done." |
Subject: Submissive or Suppressed Wills |
Bible Note: Dear WOS, My rambling is simply indicative that I am working out what I believe on these points as I write. I will most certainly, and patiently, allow others that same opportunity. Personally, I thought you made some very interesting points, and I find this a fascinating discussion. The reason, I think, that I find this so difficult to both understand and explain is that both God’s will and our will are held in the Bible to be crucial to salvation and sanctification, as you have also pointed out. We are truly taught that we would not be candidates for salvation unless God had originally chosen us, long long before we were born. We are equally taught that God wants all to be saved, has offered salvation to all, and requires that we choose Him. (Now, I understand this does not agree with the TULIP, and I intend to not debate that issue; let this simply show my beliefs on that point.) I will make the same specification as you, that I also am writing solely regarding the regenerate. I praise God that He does not allow us to fully “switch over” to the flesh. No matter what my state of mind, I am never without the consciousness of God’s presence and activity in my life. 2 Cor 5 16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. To me, a key point is identification. When we are reborn, we are a newly created being, a “new creation”. We are no longer identified with the person we once were. At least, not by God. We tend to go back on that, both identifying ourselves, and our Christian brothers and sisters with those people we were, and sometimes still act like. This is a very intriguing passage to me in the context of this discussion. As we ponder what we could learn from having known Christ “according to the flesh”, Paul dismisses it out of hand, to say “we know Him thus no longer”. Perhaps that is his way of dismissing the subject? But the point is, God doesn’t, and we aren’t supposed to, identify each other and ourselves with that “old man”, or old nature. We are no longer that person. Heb 12 1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. Here it seems that God comparing our sin and “weights” with the attack of sinners on Jesus. Perhaps we may think of Jesus remaining steadfast to fulfill the will of the Father against the hostility expressed against Him as comparable to our struggle to remain steadfast to fulfill the will of the Father against the hostility of our own old nature? I have long thought of this passage as expressing that we are either moving ahead in the life of the spirit, or standing still because we allow sin in our lives, which stands in our way. This leads me to Eph 2:10, “for we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we would walk in them.” It suddenly occurs to me, how could God’s will expressing itself in us, or to put it another way, our living spirit, created ”in true righteousness and holiness”, ever be actually submitted to the will of the flesh? So with this in mind, I would say that the more we identify with the new creation, and choose to be that that God has created us to be, the more we take on the characteristics of that new creation, and the less we have the characteristics of the old man. All that to say that given to choose between submission of one nature to the other, or suppression of one nature by the other, I would say that the latter describes the state of the believer. Perhaps given a little longer, I will ramble less! :-) But meanwhile, I am interested in anything further you may choose to share. Love in Christ, Mark |