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NASB | Luke 11:2 And He said to them, "When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Luke 11:2 He said to them, "When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. |
Subject: help |
Bible Note: Dear Bows44, Thank you for taking the time to respond so fully. It is much appreciated. Although your experiences are interesting, they are not persuasive. Many folks have had lots of experiences, resulting in the false religions of the world. This forum emphasizes the authority of the Bible over experience. I do not intend any note of irony when I state that this is why the forum is a StudyBibleForum rather than a StudyExperienceForum. We seek to found all we say on Scripture. Regarding Rom 1:20 as evidence for "God using nature to speak to us," I can understand what you are saying if you use a broad definition for "speak." However, that could be very misleading, especially to the world. As the old scholars put it "Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation." Note they do not call this "speaking." In fact, I can find no reputable Bible scholar who does so. Speaking infers an effort to communicate. We know some about God because of things He has done, but not all of the things He does are communication. If you look at my lawn you would see that I mowed it yesterday. From this you can infer things about me. However, I was not "speaking" anything by the act of mowing! Although the following does not address the incorrect hermeneutic of John 10, I will respond. You wrote, "Well, God talked to Abraham, Moses, Joshua, and ... he also talked to everyone who wrote parts of the Bible. Everyone of these he talked to heard him. (sic)" That is correct. As has been noted in Heb 1:1 "In many ways and in various ways of old, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets." Note it does not say God spoke to the fathers through nature, experience, feelings, or voices. Nor does it say God spoke to you or me. God spoke to the fathers. You asked, "Why wouldn't he talk to us today?" Many things happened in history. Many people lived and died. God chose about 40 of them to pen the Scriptures. If you question is why God doesn't speak to you the same way, that is because He has chosen you to live in the world here and now. He has not granted that you be one of the prophets of Scripture. If you are asking why God does not have prophets writing more today, it is because He no longer uses that method. Please read Hebrews 1:2, "in these last days spoken unto us by His Son." You wrote, "The apostles had scriptures too, called the Torah, the Prophets, Psalms and Proverbs." Yes, they did. Again, I point to 2 Peter where he (an apostle) places the authority of Scripture higher than experience. You wrote, "I'm sure that the Pharisees didn't approve of their writings as scripture, yet we do so today." Ma'am, no offense, but this comment demonstrates you do not understand who and what the Pharisees were. I suggest further study. (It was the Sadducees who had the low view of Scripture.) In fact, Christ was critical of the Pharisees, as they had the Scriptures, but placed something else in higher authority. I agree that there are many "Christian" books that ought to be burned. I'd start with several that are currently being sold at Wal-Mart! From your comments, however, I suspect you misunderstood what I meant by "adding to Scripture." It means saying something that God did not say and attributing it to Him. In ancient Israel, anyone doing that was called a false prophet. It was such a serious offense that such people were killed immediately. I mentioned Revelation 22 in my post to Wild Olive Branch. You answered my questions about the teaching the sufficiency of Scripture in your church with, "No. We are taught in the sufficiency of Jesus." I commend you to John chapter 1. Jesus is the Word of God. You wrote, "We don't worship a book." This must be a common theme in AG circles as it comes up so often. It is a terrible misrepresentation. (If you wish to condemn, please condemn on our own merits, not something we do not affirm! That's a logical fallacy that reveals more about the person using it than the one with whom they are debating.) This is like someone saying "Pentecostals worship the 'gifts of the Spirit.'" Shouldn't we place the same significance on Scripture that God places on it? "I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy Name for Thy loving kindness and for Thy Truth: for Thou hast magnified Thy Word above all Thy Name." Were you aware that God placed such a high value on the Word? In Him, Doc |