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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Actual bodies in heaven? | 1 John 3:2 | Beja | 214060 | ||
Bill, 1 Peter 1:20-21 "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." We see that the Bible does claim to be inspired by God and therefore not by man's authority. It is not Jesus versus Peter, it is Jesus along with the other word's of God. 2 Peter 3: 15-16 "our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." And here we see Peter claim that Paul's writing are also to be considered scripture. As well the key comment about the wisdom that was "given him." Paul's teaching was given him by God, which he defends very aggresively in Galatians. Scripture clearly teaches its own authority and inspiration by God. But lets take a look at something Christ Himself said since that is your focus. Matthew 5:17-19 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." We can see clearly that Jesus Himself rebukes anybody who would teach that the Law is invalid. This would be Moses, whom you said a Christian shouldn't be teaching you to follow. Scripture is an all or none I'm afraid. Any part you wish to choose will rebuke you for the part you reject. Every part of it is inspired by God and therefore inerrent. Finally, I want to bring up what might be a touchy correction. And that is that I would gently and humbly ask you to beware pride. That may sound like a surprising thing for me to say but there is one thing that is absolutely essential to your view. And that thing is that in order to believe what you say, you must assume that essentially every Christian throughout history must be deluded and not intelligent enough to see what you deem obvious. I assure you many men of which we will be hard pressed to find their equal today has set their minds to these things. Yet you hold your mind to have trumped them all. Now I do not suggest that you have ever openly thought of it this way, but whether you have or not you must believe that in order to so freely correct all of Christian history. Beware pride, friend. 1 Cor 3:18 "Let no man deceive himself If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise" In Love, Beja |
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2 | Actual bodies in heaven? | 1 John 3:2 | bill0624 | 214062 | ||
Hi Beja. Let me start with the end of your post first. Oops, wait, I need a scriptural reference, right? Okay, "the first shall be last and the last shall be first." Ha ha! Just kidding! I DO have a sense of humor. I am not at all suggesting that every Christian through history must be deluded or not intelligent or trumped by be or needing correction. We all stand on the shoulders of others, don't we? What I am suggestion is that the church, from time to time, gets caught up in traditions and the doctrines of men that lead it away from the teachings of Jesus. Do you doubt this? Do you think the bodily ascension of Mary is something Jesus taught? Do you think that indulgences is part of Jesus' teaching? Do you think that 5-Point Calvinism is the thrust of Jesus' gospel? Do you think that the "Name-It-And-Claim-It" message of contemporary Christianity is the heart of Jesus' message? I don't think these church doctrines are part of Jesus' gospel. And neither do I believe that Paul's understanding of the gospel is exactly what Jesus taught. Read Jesus' inaugeral address given after his baptism from the book of Isaiah. It has nothing to do with his death and resurrection. It has to do with helping the poor, healing the sick, setting captives free, proclaiming liberty. This was JESUS' gospel. If we don't recognize this, then, yes, we have chosen Paul and ignored Jesus himself. Now, if "scripture is an all or none" deal, then ALL of scripture is binding on you, Beja. This means you are under Mosaic law, levitical law, Israel's social law, etc. If the OT carries just as must authority today, then we need to obey God's words and bring animal sacrifices to the temple. If we don't, then we are disobeying "the word of the Lord." So this, Beja, is the issue. If the ENTIRE Bible is God's authoritative voice and teaching directly to you, then you must obey the ENTIRE Bible, all of it. You need to avoid blended clothing. You need to refrain from planting two different crops in one field. You need to kill your enemies as God commanded Moses and Joshua to do. You need to offer animal sacrifices. If ALL of it is "God's words to all of it", then we can't pick and choose which laws or covenants we want to be under. I would like to know, for all the Bible-thumpers on this forum who believe that everything in the Bible applies today, why their own churches don't force women to keep absolutely quiet - no singing, no teaching children, no praying, no talking. After all, these are (supposedly), not Paul's words, but the very words of God as to how women should act in church. How many here who hold the Bible's teachings to be "the plumbline" for everything in life actually FOLLOW the teachings? |
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3 | Actual bodies in heaven? | 1 John 3:2 | Beja | 214065 | ||
Bill, First of many points and perhaps most importantly, you responded to nothing I said previously. I mean this in the sense that you apparently had no ability to show those scriptures either invalid, or misrepresented by myself. If you and I are actually going to arrive anywhere in a discussion, those points must be dealt with. Because a trust in scripture is the only starting point we could possibly have. Now, you did respond to what I said in another sense, in that you suggested to me that the implications of what I am saying would not be something I hold to and therefore I myself must abandon the statement because of that. That appears to me to be your logic in your last post. Your critiques however show that you do not understand any of what a person with my views actually believes. I'd like to state a few that would help with some of your specific objections. I'm not going to spend the time scripture hunting for all these, I have no illusions of convincing you of anything at this point, I merely want to give you a hint of what scripture teaches in these things. First, the Old Testament Law consists of two parts, the moral law and the ceremonial law. The moral law consists of right and wrong, the cermonial law were simply temporary ordinances which were meant to depict what was coming in Christ. When Christ came, he did away with the ceremonial law because all these were pointing to something coming in Him. (I say these things not from picking and choosing but because this is what scripture says about itself) So things like eating regulations, sowing a field with two seeds, mixed cloths in clothing, sacrificial system, all this was done away with. The laws concerning right and wrong and morality however remain in a sense. The reason being, that even though Christ has destroyed the law's ability to condemn those who have faith in Christ, the moral law is still a picture of perfect righteousness, and hence how are we to dicard something such as that? Another major problem is you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of one time commands. You remarked that we would need to kill our enemies such as Moses or Joshua. Surely anybody of any intelligence at all can see that in such passages God is commanding the death of certain particular sinners by the hands of His people rather than commanding some holy jihad against our enemies! Lets not throw out such silly statements as we discuss these things, for you know that there is no compulsion to see scripture in that way. In short, the fact that scripture is all or none does not mean to rob scripture of its own sense of progressive revelation that it teaches! The scripture shows us how to interpret such things, so believeing all of scripture to be inerrant forces none of the silly things that you are accusing us of. Also, with regards to Jesus' gospel we certainly should not take his Isaiah teaching as a comprehensive explination of His gospel! Jesus Himself never even said as much, he simply said that today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing. You seem to be completely unaware of all the many statements Jesus said concerning those who believe in him have life and those who do not don't. He fleshes out His Gospel in many places in his own teachings, friend. There is so many things you are saying to correct that I can not hope to correct them all, and even if I could you would not hear because you begin with the most fundamental error of all. That God's word is not trustworthy. Oh, and yes, I do believe 5 point calvinism, and I think you'll find it in the gospel of John if you want to hear it from Jesus. A good deal of it can be found in John chapter 6. In Love, Beja |
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4 | Actual bodies in heaven? | 1 John 3:2 | bill0624 | 214068 | ||
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