Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | is there security of the believer | Rom 8:39 | Aspiring Overseer | 68358 | ||
NKA, I am sure you are familiar with John chapter 15, where Jesus teaches His disciples about the kingdom of heaven. It reads: John 15:1-2 15:1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2"Every branch in Me (in Christ) that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes (disciplines) it, that it may bear more fruit. If people wish to be part of the "true vine" they must be "in Christ", that is to be covered by the atoning sacrifice of His blood, as I am sure you agree. Pay close attention to what is said next, however; those branches already "in Christ", who do not bear fruit, are taken away! These branches (Christians) were "in Christ" (i.e. saved and having full knowledge of the goodness of God) yet they did not bear fruit and thus lost their salvation! Why did they bear no fruit? Is not God able to perform all the works necessary? If God were to ensure our salvation regardless of our effort, then this chapter, and many others, are foolishness. Of course, they are not, so from the perspective of an independent thinker in Scripture; which I trust, you are; this requires careful consideration. We can either trust in what others say about Scripture or research it for ourselves. Agreed? John 15:8 8 By this is My Father glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. NAS Christians must put forth the effort to prove themselves as Christ’s disciples. AO |
||||||
2 | is there security of the believer | Rom 8:39 | Reformer Joe | 68372 | ||
You wrote: 'If people wish to be part of the "true vine" they must be "in Christ", that is to be covered by the atoning sacrifice of His blood, as I am sure you agree. Pay close attention to what is said next, however; those branches already "in Christ", who do not bear fruit, are taken away!' Where in John 15 do you see that being a branch automatically means being "in Christ"? Those words are not used at all in this chapter, and there are a number of very valid ways of looking at what the branches represent than concluding that all the branches are truly saved. In fact, the branches are burned not primarily for not bearing fruit on their own, but the cause of this situation is that they are not abiding in Him in the first place. You wrote: "If God were to ensure our salvation regardless of our effort, then this chapter, and many others, are foolishness." God ensures our salvation AND our effort. You wrote: "Christians must put forth the effort to prove themselves as Christ’s disciples." As as Jesus himself says in verse 5, apart from Him you can do nothing. It's not a "God's part-our part" scenario. Our part is God's part as well. --Joe! |
||||||
3 | is there security of the believer | Rom 8:39 | Aspiring Overseer | 68424 | ||
Joe, These are the verses we are discussing: John 15:1-2 15:1"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit. NAS What is the "true vine" and who are those who are "in Me"? AO |
||||||