Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Who is Jesus' God? | John 3:16 | Tara1 | 111977 | ||
Greetings to you Huron, I've not written to you before. I hope you appreciate this study of this verse. This reply is long but covers the subject well. What you wrote, you only wish it was that easy. :-) No, this verse in the Greek does not say that. Hebrews 1:8 says: “But with reference to the Son: ‘God is your [the Son’s] throne forever and ever.’” This shows that Jesus’ throne, his office or authority as a sovereign, has its source in Jehovah the Almighty God. True, the Authorized Version, or King James Version, renders Hebrews 1:8 this way: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.” Thus, these translators have it that Jesus is shown to be the same as Almighty God. This cannot be correct. First, note the context. In many translations, either in the main text or in the margin, Hebrews 1:9 reads, “God, your God, anointed you.” This makes it clear that the one addressed in verse eight is not God, but one who worships God and is anointed by him. Secondly, it should be noted that Hebrews 1:8, 9 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6, 7, more specifically the Greek Septuagint which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Surely the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and neither did the writer of Hebrews think that Jesus was Almighty God. Commenting on this, scholar B. F. Westcott said: “It is scarcely possible that [‘Elo·him´, “God”] in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God.’” The New World Translation and a number of other translations render Hebrews 1:8 as, “God is your throne.” (Please note: An American Translation, Moffatt; also the marginal reading in American Standard Version, Revised Standard Version and The New English Bible.) This makes it clear that the “Son,” Jesus Christ, has a God who is higher than he is. Quite frankly, and many take offense to being frank but the truth of the matter is Hebrews 1:8 in translation you used, is mistranslated to support the trinity doctrine. Greek scholars Edgar j. Goodspeed, James Moffatt and Stephen T. Byington agree with the NWT of this verse. Read and see for yourself the alternative readings for this verse offered by the RSV and NEB, and you will see a definite theological bias in the KJV. So, in Greek, the verse reads as follows: pros de ton huion ho thronos sou ho Theos eis ton aiona tou aionos kai he rhabdos tes euthutetos rhabdos tes basileias autou (Westcott-Hort). Also the TEV translates the passage in a way that would seem to uphold the notion that Christ is God on some level. It says: "About the Son, however, God said: "Your kingdom, O God, will last forever and ever! You will rule over your people with justice," whereas Byington's Bible in Living English renders Heb. 1:8 thusly: "but as to the Son 'God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of integrity is the scepter of his reign.' From a comparison of the two Bible versions cited above, translational and theological questions immediately come to the fore. Heb. 1:8 makes us wonder how we are to understand what the book of Hebrews says about the ontological status of our Lord and Savior. Does the book of Hebrews teach that Jesus is Almighty God? Alternatively, does it ontologically subordinate him to the Father? Let’s approach Heb. 1:8 from three primary perspectives: (1) From an Old Testament perspective (2) From a cotextual perspective. That is, I will examine the word proskuneo in Heb. 1:6 and try to discern how its meaning bears on one's understanding of Theos and thronos in Heb. 1:8. (3) Lastly, I will consider the syntax of Heb. 1:8 and attempt to determine how one either should or might construe the word order in the said passage. I will argue that Heb. 1:8 should be interpreted as a royal account that religiously delineates the kingly status of the risen and exalted Christ without attributing to him, full Deity. We will therefore begin by outlining the structure of Heb. 1:1-8 and discussing verse by verse how each unit of the text contributes to understanding Heb. 1:8. Tara1 |
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2 | Who is Jesus' God? | John 3:16 | Huron | 112038 | ||
Tara1 Thanks for your reply. The versions I respect (NASB, KJV) support the meaning I provided. NWT may support your view, but that version isn't widely respected. Seems we have to both go with a version we respect. I would like to use NASB, you would like to use NWT. Let's use KJV. Jesus was very clear. In John 10:30, He said that I and the Father are one! In Isiah 44:6, God says, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God" Jesus say's the same thing in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." To prove that this is Jesus speaking, Revelation 1:18 say's, "I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." |
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3 | Who is Jesus' God? | John 3:16 | Ray | 112052 | ||
Hi Huron, We could wish that Tara and other Jehovah's Witnesses would see that they have made Jesus into a strange god. They have fashioned a graven image and they fall down before it and worship. They pray to it and say, "Deliver me, for thou art my god." Isaiah 44:18, "They do not know, nor do they understand, for (He) has smeared over their eyes so that they cannot see and their hearts so that they cannot comprehend." We could wish that they were His witnesses and witnesses of the Way. Isaiah 44:8, "Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are ***My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me/, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." For this is what Jesus said in John 14:6. "I am the ***Way, the Truth and the Life/. No one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had know (Me)..." Their eyes are smeared and they do not know (Him), otherwise they would have known and seen the Father through Him. But we can rejoice in knowing Jesus Christ as the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. And He who is and who was and who is to come has made US to be a kingdom. Revelation 1:6, "And He/ has made us to be a kingdom, priests to [God and His (Father)]." The brackets show the alternate reading in the NASB margin for "His God and Father". The parentheses and stars are mine for comparisons. From the heart, Ray |
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