Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | help | Luke 11:2 | DocTrinsograce | 149316 | ||
Dear Sister Bows44, Thank you for answering my queries! I apologize if you interpreted them as contentious. I'll try to answer your questions. You wrote, "How can talking with him not be exciting? (sic)" I agree! Communing with God is more important than life itself. Even the times when His incredible holiness drives us to our knees in the recognition of our utter inadequacy and sinfulness, it is still an awesome and incredible thing! He is the lover our soul, has elected us unto salvation, has purchased our redemption by the shed blood of His Son, has sealed us with His Holy Spirit, etc. Frankly, if a person does not love the Lord, then they do not know Him (1 Cor 16:22). Hence my concern for the person you were attempting to encourage. You wrote, "Are you saying that God is limited to speaking to his sheep through the Bible only?" Yes. God does not speak through nature. (Some of His attributes are revealed there.) God does not speak through animals. (Even in Num 22, it was the donkey speaking.) Insofar as "others, songs, and experiences," I would say that is true if they reflect the Word of God. God forbids anyone from removing or adding to His Word (Rev 22:18 and elsewhere). Even Peter states that the Scriptures are superior to the experience he had on the mount of transfiguration (2 Peter 1:19)! By the way, you mentioned many of the attributes of Satan but you left out an important one. In fact, it is clear from the very first instance we see him in Scripture. Satan deceives! (John 8:44) Also, "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor 11:14b). Regarding John 10 and the sheep hearing the voice of the Shepherd: This discourse is about salvation. It has nothing to say about "listening for God," nor is it establishing a normative practice for believers. You also keep saying that God speaks in prayer. Prayer is speaking to God. It is offering thanksgiving, praise, adoration, and making supplication. Is there a Scripture that you use to derive a different meaning? You wrote, "Would you want a one sided conversation with them (family)? Have you written down everything you have to say to them and had it compiled into a book and told them that is all you have to say? Isn't talking with your wife and kids exciting or enjoyable?" The answers are: No. No. and Yes. This always puzzles me. The Word of God is living, not just "a book." It is vibrant, alive, deep, convicting, rich, etc. It puzzles me that there are believers who think that the Bible is inadequate. Isn't the doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture taught in your church? You wrote, "I for one am not going to limit God to how he can speak to me." I would submit, very humbly and very respectfully, ma'am, that you do limit Him. If you believe that the Scripture is not sufficient for your every need and that it is inadequate to stir the deepest delight and joy in your heart, then you are limiting God because you are not taking Him at His Word. I am only a simple, inadequate servant of the Lord, so please do not be offended. The Pharisees depended on the oral traditions more than the Scriptures. They said, "It is said..." and Christ always said, "It is written..." If Christ Himself put such emphasis on the Scriptures, how can we not do the same? Also, let me add that those who have a high view of the Scriptures are not limiting God. God has, rather, limited Himself. He is the One Who has chosen to use this vehicle to communicate to His own. You wrote, "I love my Jesus and he loves me and we enjoy hanging out together and talking. I would that every Christian develop a passionate relationship with Jesus." Again, I humbly suggest that this is a presumptuous statement. I have a deep, abiding, satisfying, exciting, and fulfilling relationship with the Lord. He speaks great volumes to me directly from the Word. However, Christianity is not about joy, peace, excitement, experiences, etc. It is about the Truth. Job said, "Though He slay me, yet shall I serve Him." We serve the Lord not for what we get out of it, but because of Who He is! In Him, Doc |
||||||
2 | help | Luke 11:2 | Wild Olive Shoot | 149326 | ||
I'm sorry but I have to offer my two cents on this. Doc, I must say, with all due respect, the manner in which you wordsmith is twisting and confusing. Your wrote: Regarding John 10 and the sheep hearing the voice of the Shepherd: This discourse is about salvation. It has nothing to say about "listening for God," nor is it establishing a normative practice for believers. I disagree with you here. It speaks of salvation yes, but it also speaks to the sovereignty of God and our response to that. It speaks of both divine sovereignty in the shepherd's call and our, “mans”, response, in hearing, knowing and the following by the sheep. It also speaks of discernment, since there are more voices calling to us than just our own shepherd's, we must be able to recognize. Following Jesus means refusing to follow others who are claiming to be shepherds. Jesus' sheep will actually run away from strangers. You wrote: "I for one am not going to limit God to how he can speak to me." I would submit, very humbly and very respectfully, ma'am, that you do limit Him. If you believe that the Scripture is not sufficient for your every need and that it is inadequate to stir the deepest delight and joy in your heart, then you are limiting God because you are not taking Him at His Word. Since God is sovereign and omnipotent He can not be limited in anything He chooses to do and that would include how He choose to identify Himself to us, whether it be in His word or in His ability to communicate otherwise. He does as He pleases. Don't rationalize His omnipotence and limit it to Scripture. You then followed that up with: Also, let me add that those who have a high view of the Scriptures are not limiting God. God has, rather, limited Himself. He is the One Who has chosen to use this vehicle to communicate to His own. Throughout history God has used many vehicles to convey his word. He spoke directly to some. In other cases He utilized the power of miracles. Sometimes His voice was a gentle whisper, other times it was a violent wind. His angels have communicated His word to us through burning bushes, the mouth of a donkey, in dreams and in revelations. And yes, the things of nature “reveal” God to us, but in order for us to recognize, they must speak to us. It may not be verbally, but rather spiritually. You say: God forbids anyone from removing or adding to His Word. Show me in His word where God tells us that is all we get? I say ask, seek and find. You also wrote: You also keep saying that God speaks in prayer. Prayer is speaking to God. It is offering thanksgiving, praise, adoration, and making supplication. Is there a Scripture that you use to derive a different meaning? Yes, prayer is speaking to God. But God answers prayers. God speaks to us in response to prayer. Now primarily, that is through the Bible, but He also speaks to our conscience by way of the Holy Spirit. It all comes down to being able to recognize His voice when He does speak. Balaam didn’t realize God was trying to communicate with him until the Lord opened his eyes. Maybe we all need to open our eyes, or rather, ask the Lord to open our eyes and we could see more clearly just how He communicates with his. (Numbers 22:28-34) Samuel heard the word of God but didn’t realize it until Eli had instructed him. (1Sam.3:1-10) Personally, God has never spoken to me, in a manner in which I could say for sure, yes that was God’s voice, but I do recognize events in which I believe He is communicating, one way or another through His Holy Spirit. He has also spoken to me through His word. However, I don’t limit His ability to communicate on any basis. How God chooses to speak to another, that is His choice and you or I have nothing to say about it. And concerning your follow up: PS Following are a few quotes that demonstrate the discomfort I have with experiences like you describe. What these folks talk about is substantively no different. If we allow for these self-validating, mystical experiences, then it opens the door for many other errors! Scripture, God’s word, does give us the means in which to identify the nature of what you call “mystical experiences”. I’ll trust God’s words over yours or any mans as authority concerning how to identify the nature of the spirits. If we shut ourselves off to God and His speaking to us and our reactions to it, then we invite the unwanted in to our lives. That opens the door far wider for errors to enter in. What is the use of praying for direction and guidance if God in return does not answer? In expecting no answer, you ask to remain in a dark, ungodly world without a guiding light whatsoever. WOS |
||||||
3 | help | Luke 11:2 | DocTrinsograce | 149338 | ||
Hi, Wild Olive Shoot! No need to apologize, sir. The forum, as I have come to understand it, has a long tradition of insistence that our posits be supported by Scripture. I guess if it didn't, then it wouldn't be a Bible Study forum! :-) You'll have to help me, however, by being a bit more specific about where I am twisting the meaning of words. I try to be as clear as I can, but I don't always succeed! You are, of course, welcome to disagree about John 10. However, I don't think that one can soundly exegete the passage and arrive at any other conclusion than that Christ is speaking to the Pharisees about salvation. If you like, we can start another thread and work through the chapter. If you have evidence to the contrary, I am always happy to have my misunderstandings corrected! You wrote, "Since God is sovereign and omnipotent He can not be limited in anything." That is not precisely true, sir. We know from Scripture, for example, that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2). Indeed, God cannot do or be anything contrary to His nature. Nor can He do anything that is contrary to His will; i.e., there is nothing that can force Him to do that which does not please Him to do. These facts about God do not eliminate the incommunicable attributes of His sovereignty or His omnipotency. Indeed, the scripture very clearly affirms both. Consequently, when God decrees a thing, we can be confident that He won't change His mind. This is very important to our faith! You stated, "Throughout history God has used many vehicles to convey his word. (sic)" That is true. "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds." (Hebrews 1:1-2) You wrote, "It may not be verbally, but rather spiritually." If you mean that the Word of God can only be understood by the specific and purposeful act of the Holy Spirit, then I agree. You ask, "Show me in His word where God tells us that is all we get?" I will answer the question, but here is another one of those puzzling things. The phrase "all we get" implies that the Scriptures are inadequate, incomplete, or insufficient. I do not know why a believer would have such a low opinion of the Scriptures. While it is true that is true is in the Scriptures, all scripture is true. Far more learned men than I am said it this way, "he Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience." And further, "The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved." Regarding your question about closed revelation: God has done this for us as a gift. By giving us all that is necessary and sufficient, He effectively eliminates the introduction of heresy by people who say "thus says the Lord" when God has not said it. (This question is crucial in apologetics when dealing with cults like Mormonism.) Furthermore, remember that we live by EVERY word of God. If God were speaking new words, we would need to be running about gathering it all together, that we might live by it. Instead, He gives us all that we need. Not just enough, but EVERYTHING we need for Godly behavior. Oops... I see I am running out of space. (Continued in next post.) In Him, Doc |
||||||