Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | Lastday | 97948 | ||
EdB, Interesting comments that show a lot of study. On the question of timine, we learn that "chronos-time is no longer in the days whenever the 7th Trumpet is about to sound." Rev.10:6,7. Therefore, whatever occurs as of that Trumpet must take place after the tribulation ends. Also, "no one can enter the Temple in heaven until the last plague empties in midair." Rev.15:8. Mel |
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2 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | EdB | 97998 | ||
Mel I see no condition in verses 6-7 that says time is no longer in 'days'. And even if it did there is certainly no indication whether it is talking in relation to heaven or earth. In fact if New Jerusalem is a model of heaven, which I believe it is, there is no night nor day. Why must the 7 th trumpet sound after the tribulation? You mentioned no one can enter the temple until the 7 plagues are finished. That is true however it establishes no time frame here on earth. Also you mention "empties midair" where did you get that and what is the significance of it? You made some interesting comments but I fail to see the scriptural support for them. Please help me understand what scripture you used to develop them. EdB |
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3 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | Lastday | 98036 | ||
EdB, I like your distinction between things in heaven and things on earth. These two are brought together by the answer to the Martyrs’s prayer in Rev.6:9. Here we see that the last “brother or fellow-servant who must yet be killed” determines the “day and hour” which only the Father knows. The interaction between heaven and earth begins on the day of the last Martyr! So this is the “condition” you need to consider before the voice comes out of the Temple, from the throne, saying: “It is Done,” meaning that the End has come! (The New Jerusalem Bible). Immediately, the Lamb opens Seal Six to indicate to the entire world that the “DAY of God’s wrath has come.” So Rev.16:17 sets in motion the Lastday’s action that takes place on earth. Since “no one can enter the Temple until all the Martyrs out of the great tribulation sing the song of Moses in which they affirm the seven last plagues had demonstrated that God’s judgments are holy and true,” 15:4,8, and since the wine of “God’s Cup of anger and wrath” will not pour out in the total destruction of earth’s cities and mountains and earth’s inhabitants until the “hour of trial” described in Rev.16:18-21, and because that happens after Christ appears in Rev.19:11-15 (see Luke 21:25-35), the action IN THE TEMPLE must take place between Rev.16:17 and Rev.16:19. Again, the final scene in heaven finds heaven rejoicing that Babylon’s final fall by earthquake has taken place. This is described in Rev.16:18 and Rev.18:21-24. But neither the total destruction of the armies at Armageddon nor the one “who will be taken or left” can take place until Christ appears. So, while Babylon’s final fall can occur before the total destruction of the wicked, the Lamb of God must not only open Seal Six first, but the Temple is declared to be open as of Rev.15:5 for the Three-Act Temple Drama. The Drama in the Temple occurs after the plagues have demonstrated God’s holy and righteous anger (not wrath since the plagues only “complete His anger”; see any Greek text or The New Jerusalem Bible). Therefore, Rev.7:9 to 8:5 and Rev.11:15-19 (for actions in the Temple only) must end as the 7th Trumpet sounds ... for Rev.7:15 shows the Martyrs are in the Temple, the wicked are judged before God in Seal 7's Court Scene and Rev.11:19 states the 7th Trumpet sounds when the Temple was open! It does not sound until “God’s mystery was finished and chronos-time” completes the countdown of 1260 days ... plus up to 3½ more days until the last martyr is killed. Neither the Temple Drama in heaven nor the Cup of Wrath poured out on earth can take place until the last martyr is killed and the last plague proves that God’s anger is exhausted and ready to be “mixed in the cup of His wrath.” Rev.14:10. Therefore the contents of the 7th Plague, emptied “upon the air,” remains suspended until Christ is crowned in the 7th Trumpet and the “hour of trial” comes upon all of earth’s inhabitants. The 7th Plague “completes God’s patient anger” before the 7th Trumpet proclaims two things. One: God’s wrath has come and the appointed time (kairos) to judge and reward the Saints and all those who fear God ... both small and great.” Two: The appointed time has also come to “destroy those who are in the process of destroying the earth.” Rev.11:18. So God’s wrath is first announced, from heaven, at the 7th Trumpet. The Three-Act Temple Drama ends with the 7th Trumpet. Heaven’s final scene follows as heaven rejoices, the Saints prepare for the Lamb’s wedding, Christ descends and, after gathering the Elect from earth to heaven, during the Hour of Trial, wherever there are Twosomes, “one will be taken and one will be left. Whoever is willing to die will be kept alive.” Luke 17:33. Jesus said He will “gather the Elect from earth after the great tribulation and raise every Believer on the last day.” He is not crowned, nor are the Saints rewarded, until the 7th Trumpet sounds. So it must sound after “chronos (time) is no longer and God’s mystery was finished ... on one of the days after the tribulation.” Mark 13:24,27, John 6:38-40. Of course there will be no “day or night in the New Jerusalem,” but all the Martyrs will serve God as “pillars in heaven’s temple for 1000 years” before the New Jerusalem comes down upon the New Earth. Rev.3:12, 7:15, 20:4. Thanks for the interchange. Mel |
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4 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | EdB | 98046 | ||
Mel I see where your going but your placing things in a sequence that is not totally scripturally supported. Your saying B follows A and D follows C and since C and B sound similar we conclude ABCD. When in fact it could be CDAB or CADB or ACDB or even ACBD To me the scripture can imply the 7 th trumpet begins the Bowl judgements as easily as it can signify the end of them. Further, nowhere can I find your answer to the question that started this thread, “Do you think the 42 months, or 1260 days, end within 3 1/2 days of the 7th Trumpet? Mel “ EdB |
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5 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | Lastday | 98049 | ||
EdB, Jesus categorically places the opening of the 6th Seal "on one of the days after the great tribulation." The 3 1/2 year Endtime, says Daniel, is confined to 1290 days. Jesus says those days will be "cut short." Seal Six occurs after the great tribulation on an unknown day which includes the Hour of His appearance in glory. Matt.24:29,30, Mark 13:24-26. Can you give any reason why the Hour that Christ appears occurs on any other day? Can you give any scripture that even implies the wrath of the 7th Trumpet comes before the Plagues of God's anger? I have given only one or two reasons why the 7th Trumpet is the Last Trump which, I believe, will sound more than once within the same Hour. But first I need to know your answers to the above questions that might even suggest the 7th Trumpet sounds before the Day Christ comes in glory. Mel |
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6 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | EdB | 98080 | ||
"Jesus categorically places the opening of the 6th Seal "on one of the days after the great tribulation." " How do you come to that conclusion? "Jesus says those days will be "cut short."" Yes but they still have to be 31/2 years to fulfill Daniel. When your talking in years and then say immediately does that mean instantly, or a short time later? Also there has to be at least one day since it says the sun won't shine nor will the moon give it light. For people to recognize this there would have to be at least 24 hour period to occur. What scripture implies the 7 th trumpet will sound after the plagues of God anger? The only indication we have that the trumpet sounds and then the bowls are poured out is that is sequence within Revelation. I'm losing you in your answers, don't try to be so cryptic and just give straight answers. EdB |
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7 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | Lastday | 98237 | ||
EdB, I understand your frustration at calling me “cryptic.” That’s because I am trying to give you the “big picture” of the purpose of the Martyrs during the 1260-day Endtime. God’s Cup of Wrath will be poured out upon mankind only when the last Martyr has been killed and joins all the martyrs in heaven “on one of the days immediately after the tribulation” to praise God and the Lamb by name. Mark 13:24; Matt.24:29. That is when they are told by the astonished Elder that they will “serve God and be shepherded by the Lamb day and night for 1000 years as Pillars in the Temple in heaven” while those who survive to the End will “sit on earthly thrones and reign over all the nations” for 1000 years. Rev.3:12, 7:15-17, 20:4,5. The “big picture” is that Martyrs have their faith *Tested* unto death to prove they are worthy of the Father at the Presence of Christ to fulfill I Thess.3:13. At the same time, their *Testimony* is used by God to bring a third of unsaved Israel to the point of accepting Jesus as their Messiah during the Sign (Seal Six) of the Day of His wrath, indeed, during Hour He appears with all the Saints. And their *Triumph* leads to the conviction and repentance of “one out of every Twosome being left behind and kept alive while the other is taken in judgment and fed to the birds.” Luke 17:30,33,37! That means 50 percent of four billion survivors (since a third of six billion will be killed over a quarter of the earth by the armies from the East) may be “kept alive (preserved) until one of the 3 days immediately after the tribulation” when the Lamb opens Seal Six. During part of the 12 hours of that Day the Two Witnesses wait for the last martyr to be killed. At the Hour of the last Martyr, (because *some* will not taste death until the days after these Two finish demonstrating God’s Kingdom Power) these Two will rise up to heaven to join the martyrs after singing the song of Moses in Rev.15:1-4. The Temple opens for the Three-Act Drama. Rev.7:9 to 8:5;11:15-19. The 7th Trumpet sounds while the Last Plague remains in the air. But after Act One (7:9-17), Act Two (Seal Seven, 8:1-5) and Act Three in 11:15-19, God’s wrath is announced as having come ... and the appointed time to judge and reward the Saints. That’s the only time God’s wrath is announced from heaven. The Last Plague contains the Cup of God’s wrath, but it is not poured out on all mankind until the Hour of Trial during which two billion out of four billion people may be “kept alive if they mourn, are willing to die, and beg to escape all these things and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:35,36. Mel |
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8 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | EdB | 98262 | ||
Lastday First you keep saying 1260 day end time. The endtime period often referred to as Daniels's 70th week is 2520 days long or one week of years, 7 times 360. You then say, "God’s Cup of Wrath will be poured out upon mankind only when the last Martyr has been killed and joins all the martyrs in heaven “on one of the days immediately after the tribulation” to praise God and the Lamb by name. Mark 13:24; Matt.24:29 " But in fact Mark 13:24 nor Matt.24:29 gives no such stipulation. Where does scripture establish the fact that all martyr’s must be heaven before God’s wrath is poured out? Isn’t it a fact they are sealed Rev 7:3 to provide them protection from God’s wrath? You then said, “That means 50 percent of four billion survivors (since a third of six billion will be killed over a quarter of the earth by the armies from the East) may be “kept alive (preserved) until one of the 3 days immediately after the tribulation” when the Lamb opens Seal Six. During part of the 12 hours of that Day the Two Witnesses wait for the last martyr to be killed. At the Hour of the last Martyr, (because *some* will not taste death until the days after these Two finish demonstrating God’s Kingdom Power) these Two will rise up to heaven to join the martyrs after singing the song of Moses in Rev.15:1-4. The Temple opens for the Three-Act Drama. Rev.7:9 to 8:5;11:15-19. “ That sounds good but it has no scriptural basis. In fact you drift from the fact as there is no stipulation that all martyr’s must be martyred before the witnesses are killed. Once they are killed their bodies lie exposed and mistreated for 3 1/2 days upon which they arise and ascend in to heaven, but the rest of your contention is not supported at all. Revelation does not give us a sequence but we understand for the witnesses to be opposed the antichrist will have to be power, we also understand that the antichrist is the factor in the martyrdom of the saints. Yet we don’t see the antichrist proclaiming his ‘deity’ in opposition to God until mid way through the 70th week. For him to be believable he would have to be able to do something about the ‘witnesses’ and begin getting rid of the saints that proclaim God as one God. Therefore to my understanding I see the witnesses beginning their ministry in the first 1260 days overlapping the last 1260 and then the antichrist will destroy them and proclaim his deity. The earth then for continuation of last half of Daniel’s 70th week will witness his inability to deal with God’s wrath poured out upon him and the earth, as he tries to eliminate any vestige of God by killing the saints. More importantly if your right then anyone would know exactly when Christ is returning. Since he would have to return exactly 3 ½ days after the martyr’s are killed. Yet scripture says very clearly we can not know the exact time. We can know tell the season but as to the timing it is not for us to know. Whether I have the right sequence or you is not important, what is important is that Christ will return and one day rule with us at his side. EdB |
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9 | Christ comes in kingdom power at the End | Mark 9:1 | Lastday | 98549 | ||
EdB, I totally agree that “what is important is that Christ will return and one day rule with us at his side.” Do you however object that I “keep referring to a 1260-day endtime”? It will be interesting to discuss the first half of Daniel’s 70th Seven, but Jesus and Paul deal only with the “abomination in the Temple” during the second half of what we call the Great Tribulation. So, what ground do you have for affirming the Two Witnesses (Two Prophets) will “begin their ministry in the first 1260 days overlapping the last 1260”? Revelation states these Two “finish their 1260-day task” with only 3 ½ days remaining before “God’s mystery was finished in the days whenever the 7th Trumpet is about to sound.” With the 7th Trumpet, the countdown of 1260 days ends because no more than 3½ days remain. What evidence do you give that more than 3½ days separate “God’s wrath having come” and the time to “judge and reward the Saints and also to destroy those who are destroying the earth”? The Plagues must be emptied before the 7th Trumpet sounds because they only “complete God’s anger and demonstrate that God's deeds are righteous.” Rev.15:1,4. That anger “mixes full strength with His wrath” as of the 7th Trumpet when “time (chronos; not delay) is no longer.” Rev.10:6,7. Why do I insist that the Sign of the Day of God’s Wrath is Seal Six? Rev.6:16,17. Because Jesus put this sign of His coming “in the days immediately AFTER the great tribulation.” Mark 13:24,27; Matt.24:29-31. The only description of that sign in Revelation is Seal Six ... the same sign Isaiah and Joel said would inaugurate the day of destruction and/or deliverance. Mel |
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