Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Reformer Joe | 6369 | ||
Thanks for the information. Modalism, for the church, is the most serious heresy regarding the nature of God. Please remember paragraphs! --Joe! |
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2 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | jim | 6372 | ||
Isaiah 9:6 tries to tell his people who to look for.He was to be the Mighty God and Everlasting Father but we have made Him less We refuse to let Spirit (God) become a man. We must make Him into a triune In Christ Jim | ||||||
3 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Ray | 6373 | ||
Hi Jim, You have said that "we have made Him less" than God the Father. You capitalized Him so you probably are talking of we, His people? Now, how are you meaning the rest of your post? I hear you saying that we are wrongly refusing to let God the Father (one Spirit) become a man. I hear you saying further, that it is imperative that we make Him into a triune whatever. If this is what you're saying I think that you are right on except that the main problem is that people of the world will see Jesus as a man but not as a Man, i.e. God. And that could be a problem of the people of God as well. On reflecting on your wanting to make Him into a triune and not finishing the sentence, I thought of making Jesus into a triune Man. And I thought again of Genesis 1:26,"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." I see Genesis 1:27 as the Spirit speaking, "And God created man in His own image..." Let me know how our positions differ. Later, Ray |
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4 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Reformer Joe | 6381 | ||
Jim denies the Trinity, saying that the idea of God eternally existing in three distinct persons is not biblical. He holds to what is alternately termed modalism or "Oneness," which holds that Jesus Christ is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now, how he explains the subject-object distinction between the persons of the Trinity as they act on each other in the NT is beyond me, as is how he explains all three being manifested at Jesus' baptism and the Father speaking from Heaven with Jesus standing on the Mount of Transfiguration. Either God is deliberately deceiving us into thinking He exists in three distinct persons, or that is really His nature. --Joe! |
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5 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | jim | 6409 | ||
I deny the trinty as some state it but I do beleive that God (1) has manifest Himself as the Father-Son-Holy Spirit. God is not a person but Spirit, I take the commandment as God told Isreal Thou shall have no other gods before me. So God took upon Himself the form of a man and filled the office of the Son so He could die for our sins. If you loved your son would you send him to die in your stead, God so loved the World that He In Christ Jim | ||||||
6 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Reformer Joe | 6417 | ||
That is exactly what God did...John 3:16 is a pretty common verse, you know. --Joe! |
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7 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Ray | 6425 | ||
Hi Joe, The question of John 3:16 is who are we to believe in; God who loved the world or His Son who was given. However, if you put the mix of the Spirit in there and say that whoever believes in the (Spirit) shall not perish, but have eternal life, then we have a better picture of who God is. The idea is to believe in the name of the only begotten Man of Spirit. Later, Ray |
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8 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Reformer Joe | 6449 | ||
Okay...I have already debated Oneness extensively on this forum. If you want to look up my old posts and respond to them, fine. The fact is that without someone doing some serious intellectual somersaults around the entire New Testament, it is impossible to claim that Jesus is the Father or the Holy Spirit. All three are one God. The Father is not the Son, however. The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. The three persons interact with each other, One sends another, One obeys another, One reveals another, the Three belong to one another, etc. etc. etc. I stand by my assertion that God is either running some kind of "con game" by appearing to be three in person, or else the Trinity stands as a revealed doctrine of the Bible. Take your pick. I prefer an honest God. :) --Joe! |
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9 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Makarios | 6809 | ||
Right on Joe! Modalism is easily refuted by the fact that all Three Persons in the New Testament are portrayed together (2 Cor. 13:14, Matt. 28:19). Moreover, we see that the Father 'sent' the Son (John 3:17), the Father and Son love each other (John 14:31), and the Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father (John 11:41,42). The Holy Spirit 'comes upon' Jesus at the baptism (Matt. 3), and Jesus and the Father are viewed as having sent the Holy Spirit (John 15:26). Clearly, a person cannot get around the fact that these are distinct Persons who interact with each other. If anyone can find any other scripture that supports modalism (Jesus is the Father is the Holy Spirit), then let me know.However, the verse that is most commonly referred to as supporting the 'idea' that Jesus is the Father is Isaiah 9:6.. I believe that when someone says that 'Jesus is the Father' after reading this verse, then they are altogether misinterpreting this verse! Ryrie's Study Bible comments on this verse and the use of "Eternal Father": "Lit., Father of Eternity; i.e., Messiah is eternally a Father to His people, guarding, supplying, and caring for their needs." Nelson's NKJV states, "Thus the word Father is used here of the Savior's role as an ideal king."So you can see here, as well as the references that I made in my original post, that Isaiah 9:6 is not saying that Jesus and the Father are different 'offices' of the same Person, but Isaiah 9:6 is referring to the Lordship of Christ to His people when it mentions "Eternal Father". If anyone has any Scriptural evidence that this verse somehow does not affirm the Trinity, then please bring that to my attention. Thanks! | ||||||
10 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Ray | 6838 | ||
Hi guys, This "Oneness" is new to me, bear with me please. I didn't know before this forum that a debate was roaring, but I've been away from things for a long while. In the Isaiah 9:6 passage I can't see the Messiah as being "Eternal anything" if the child, a son who is given to us, is merely a man. I go with the NKJ and match His name with the Child, the Son who came to earth. I'll match His name with Matthew 4:16 and Isaiah 9:1,2. I'll match His name with the Sunrise from on high of Luke 1:78,79. I'll even match His name with John 6:42,"They were saying,"Is this not Jesus the Son of Josehph whose father and mother we know? How does He say, 'I have come down out of heaven.'"...AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD. I always thought that the Father and Son were one Spirit. There is One who is good. There is one Holy Spirit. Where had I been wrong? The writer of Ephesians says, "Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." The NASB study bible led me also to Eph 5:5-20 Eph. 5:8, "but now you are light in the (Lord); walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth)..." I think that we are light so I make this lower case but He is the (Light) of the world. Capitalization shows respect for Jesus, it shows Him as Deity, it makes Him Spirit if you will. We will not know a man in heaven but we will see Him as He is. The light of Isaiah 9:2 is fulfilled when the Light dawns upon us. The Deity of Christ is what makes the Three One. And the name and authority of Jesus is what brings glory to God the Father. |
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11 | Is Jesus the 'Eternal Father'? | Is 9:6 | Makarios | 6880 | ||
Ray, I'm a bit confused about some of your writings.. If you would like more information on Trinity vs. Oneness, then please search for the other threads that directly address this question. True, Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. It is also true that God the Father is also God, to whom Jesus cried to on the cross saying, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?". And the Holy Spirit is also God. God is one in spirit and in love and in will. However, there are Three distinct Persons to this one God, and I believe that Isaiah 9:6 re-affirms that yet again. I'm not sure what your goal or intention is by focusing so much on capitalization, but I will atempt to make things clear as I go. | ||||||