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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 87163 | ||
Dear Tim, The way I understand it is that we are all born with hard hearts. From the womb we labor under the curse placed upon us through Adam's sin. We are born spiritually dead and have no desire to love or serve God. This tragic state of affairs was true for the nation of Israel just as it was for the gentile nations. Then, one may ask, of what advatage was it to be born an Israelite? Paul answers this question in Ron 3. As far as the gentiles were concerned they did'nt have even the opportunity (even if they wanted to, which they did not) to worship the true God. Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. This is only one reason that I cannot except the doctrine that teaches that we choose God and then become elect. I realize that well meaning preachers promulgated this doctrine because they believed it to be fair and democratic. They were, so to speak, getting God off the hook. That mean old doctrine of unconditional election had to go! But were they successful in this compassioate but (IMHO) wrong-headed teaching? I don't think so. Unbelievers may still throw up accusations against God, using a wide range of arguements. For instance: If God was fair He would give everyone a chance to hear the Gospel; What about all those pagans who died before Christ was born; Why do we have to suffer for something that happened before we were born; etc., etc. To be frank Tim, I find it much easier to answer these questions from the calvinistic position than from the arminian. I am also 100 per cent sure that each person with whom I share the gospel will accept it or reject it based on God's mercy. He has predestined some for mercy, the rest for justice. God Bless, John |
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2 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | Morant61 | 87225 | ||
Greetings John! I still don't how that explains Calvin's postion on Rom. 11? We all agree that we are born depraved. But, Rom. 11 specifically says that those who were hardened, and not of the elect in v. 7, can be grafted in again. How? To be fair, the Bible doesn't explain very much at all about 'election'. The word only occurs a handful of times, and then usually in contexts describing Christians (who are of course 'elect')! :-) So, I don't think that the position I posted was 'made up' simply to make God fair! I firmly believe that God can do what He wants! He is God after all. But, I also believe that Scripture teaches a 'real' universal offer of salvation. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | once saved always saved | John 10:28 | John Reformed | 87292 | ||
Hi Tim, If I am elect because of something I did, then I have something of which to boast. But if I am elect because of what God has done for me, I have nothing of which to boast. There is no denying these simple facts! I am either the master of my fate and the captain of my soul, or, I am a mere sinner rescued from the gallows by the gracious mercy of God. I used to be troubled by the idea that the sons of Adam need suffer for the sin of their father. But after much thought and prayer, I realized that not a one of us could have stood this test. We all would have chosen to be like God, and would have been decieved into believing the lie of Satan. Therefore, it is on that basis which all mankind will be rightly judged. God owes us nothing. It is not unfair of God to choose one to recieve mercy and choose another to recieve justice, for all are guilty before Him. Getting back to Romans 11... You asked "But, Rom. 11 specifically says that those who were hardened, and not of the elect in v. 7, can be grafted in again. How? Romans 11 cannot be interpreted to say what you think it says, for the reason that only the elect recieve etenal life. That is why Calvin thought it was an arguement from the lesser to the greater and not a didactic statement on the nature of election. That is why I asked if you have other verses which would shed light on your question. Rom 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; It seems clear to me that election is a function of God's grace and not human decision. John |
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