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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | mark d seyler | 166567 | ||
Hi WOS, I want to assure you that your words reflect the gentle spirit God gave to you. I know that the internet may make it more difficult to see my tongue in my cheek as I write certain things, but it is there. I believe that you are approaching this subject simply to understand it better. That also is my only intent. I do not have much time at the moment to write, and I also want to spend some more time considering what you have written, to give a more thoughful response. There are a couple of points I would like to raise, to the intent of clarifying what we are looking at. When we consider what happens at re-births, here are the options as I see them: 1. God, in an act of His Own will, without regard to our will, saves us. 2. God, in an act of His will, in conjunction with an act of our will, saves us. 3. We, in an act of our own will, receive salvation. Would you agree that this represents the possible alternatives? I think it is obvious that 3 is not right. If 1 is correct, then God suppresses our will, and then our will is made to be submissive to His. Once our will becomes submissive to His, then our old nature is suppressed. If 2 is correct, then it gets a little more complex, as we try to determine in what way our will works together with His will. Do you agree with these things? What I find as I discuss this with you is that I flip back and forth between submission and suppression (which terms, by the way, I find accurate and useful) of the will. This is why I am now attempting to break down what happens at conversion to smaller units. I will write more later, as I have time. I am really enjoying that you wish to discuss this with me! Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166596 | ||
Mark, For clarity, number 1 is clear to me. Number 3, I’m agreeable that it is not an option. Number 2 is slightly misrepresented from the intent of my original post. If 1 is true, 2 cannot be an option as it is stated, however, I was interested in what takes place immediately following number 1 with regard to our will but not in the act of salvation directly, but simply acting in response to that. I have more than likely phrased it somewhat ambiguously and I apologize for that. My question, and surely it has been difficult to stay on track, concerns how our will is further acted upon following regeneration as to whether or not we continue in a submissive or suppressed state, to stay with my original terms, because seemingly it is one or the other at the time of regeneration as I attempted to explain in an earlier post. What is the process behind our initial response concerning our will as compared to our subsequent responsiveness concerning our will? Does that help to place things into a more proper point of view? WOS |
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3 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | mark d seyler | 166597 | ||
Hi WOS, I don't think you were being ambiguous, more that I was coming to realize, at least in my own thinking, that I could better sort out the differences in how our will responds to God by considering also the act of salvation. So to revisit your original question: But is our “old nature” will suppressed, or is it simply that our “new nature” will is submissive to God’s? And to this you include that we are looking at the state of a believer after the process of regeneration is completed? Is that correct? I will hopefully have some time tonight to write more on this. Thank you for your patience with me. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | Wild Olive Shoot | 166599 | ||
Mark, “And to this you include that we are looking at the state of a believer after the process of regeneration is completed? Is that correct?” At the moment of and directly thereafter, yes. WOS |
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5 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | mark d seyler | 166610 | ||
Hi WOS, After considering the Scriptures that seem to apply to this question, mulling this over for a few days, and bouncing some things around, these are the conclusion I have come to. Following the work of regeneration, we respond in our "new creation" spirit to God in submission. We are identified with the new creature, not with the old, so when we speak of the person we are who is responding, it is the new creation. 2 Cor 5 16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. The new creation is in right relationship with God. Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. (I am using for brevity's sake only a small portion of the applicable passages.) We willingly submit to His Lordship. This is axiomatic to a right relationship with Him. Romans 8, and a host of other verses show us this. Since we yield to Him, there is no suppression of our will required. I do not find any Scriptures that speak of us forcefully subjected to God's will. That is reserved for the unbelievers, who will, at the end, submit. All such passages relating to the believer seem to me to be calling us to submit, and to cooperate with the work of sanctification. The old nature, however, is another story. While sanctification, like regeneration, is clearly the Lord's work in us, Heb 2:11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one origin. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers, Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, yet I see over and over instructions that we are to actively follow, resulting in the suppression of the old nature. Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. These all speak of an action that happens to the flesh. The flesh does not submit. It is dead, and is to be treated as dead. When it tries to exert its own will, it is to be reckoned as dead, and put to death. So I will answer that as regenerate believers, we respond with submission of our will to God, while suppressing the old nature. Again, I will be interested in your thoughts on this. Great topic! Love in Christ, Mark |
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6 | Submissive or Suppressed Wills | Luke 22:42 | DocTrinsograce | 166618 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, What you have described is very close to what the old divines wrote in the 1644 and 1689 London Baptist Confessions of Faith, chapter 9, on Free Will. Here is a link to that chapter (in modern English with annotations): http://www.founders.org/library/bcf/bcf-9.html Brother Mark... we're going to have to start calling you Divine Mark! :-) In Him, Doc |
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