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NASB | Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 1:4 just as [in His love] He chose us in Christ [actually selected us for Himself as His own] before the foundation of the world, so that we would be holy [that is, consecrated, set apart for Him, purpose-driven] and blameless in His sight. In love |
Subject: Predestination |
Bible Note: The invisible church (i.e. the true saints of God) has always existed in connection with the visible church. You are correct in stating that the two are not the same. However, the visible church, although it has impurities which sometimes seem to outweigh the pure elements within it, overlaps the invisible church. Again, the biblical model is NOT flying solo with the Spirit. You mention all of these "true saints" before the Reformation that never joined the Roman Catholic Church. You say that there is little or no history of them at all, so how do you know of their existence? Perhaps you could cite at least a couple of examples so we could know who you are talking about. What true Christians existed outside of the visible church (whether that be Rome, Eastern Orthodoxy, the Coptic Churches, or whoever)? Since you are claiming that they existed, there must be at least one or two concrete examples. You keep repeating that the Spirit of God leads us into all truth. That is patently obvious to all true Christians. What you seem to keep minimizing is that it is most often not a solitary experience. The Holy Spirit works in our hearts as we read Scripture with faith and as we pray in accordance with His revealed truth in the Bible. The Holy Spirit works in our hearts as he works in the heart of a faithful minister of His Word, speaking truth which resonates in our Spirit-filled hearts. I believe the Holy Spirit works through the Lord's Supper (the Word visualized) to confirm in our hearts that we belong to Him. In short, the Holy Spirit primarily works in connection with His Word, but He doesn't limit Himself to private conversations (i.e. just us and Him). By the way, the classical Protestant problem with Roman Catholicism is not its adherence to tradition, but the fact that it has mixed apostolic tradition (seenn infallibly in Scripture, and I believe reliably in the early church councils) with tradition of its own making. Folks like Emmaus will disagree, but the problems in the RCC arose when the Church shifted from being an INTERPRETER of apostolic revelation to considering itself a SOURCE of revelation equal to that of Scripture (and, of course, considering itself as the DEFINER of what the apostolic tradition is rather than the PRESERVER of it). --Joe! |