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NASB | Ecclesiastes 6:10 ¶ Whatever exists has already been named, and it is known what man is; for he cannot dispute with him who is stronger than he is. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ecclesiastes 6:10 ¶ Whatever exists has already been named [long ago], and it is known what [a frail being] man is; for he cannot dispute with Him who is mightier than he. |
Subject: Predestination |
Bible Note: Greetings Michael! To save space, I will respond directly to the post being mentioned and will try to limit the amount of quotes. 1) Assumptions: One of the dangers of assumptions is that one can build a house of cards on an assumption and then discover that one’s assumption was wrong from the very beginning. For instance, you assumed: “You’re mistaken, because you’ve a mere cursory consideration to these passages of Scripture. I suggest that you re-examine those two passages of Scripture’ namely, Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:28-30, and also consider their implications.” You were not aware however that I have translated both Romans and Ephesians from Greek to English, that I have read about and studied these passages for some 20 years now, and that I spent an entire semester researching and writing a 60 page study of Romans 9-11 in college. While you may not agree with me on my findings, it certainly is not true that I have only given these passages a cursory consideration. While I don’t have time to give all of my findings of these passages (I have posted on some of them on the forum previously), it is my understanding that these passage do not posit an unconditional, particular, individual election to salvation, but God’s sovereign right to work through both Jews and Gentiles that He might have mercy on all. This is what I meant when I originally spoke about assumptions concerning election and predestination. These two terms and only used a few times in Scripture. There is very little clearly laid out in Scripture about them, but certain systems of theology have built a mountain of assumptions on these terms that very well may be false. 2) 2 Tim. 1:9 and 2 Thess. 2:13: These Scriptures certainly demonstrate that God’s plan of salvation was always a part of His will, but read these verses in such a way that God has chosen some and rejected others is to read something into the text that is not there. For instance, I could write concerning a forum member: “From the beginning, you have read my posts.” But, that does not necessarily mean that no one else had read my posts. In the same way, Paul speaks of those to whom he is writing as having been chosen, but that does not mean that no one else could be included in that number. 3) John 17:2: Again, an assumption is being read into this text. The verse never defines the limits of those whom God has given Him. You assume that this is a limited number. You also assume that this is a reference to others other than the 12 disciples. The same phrase is used of the disciples in the rest of the chapter. Are these assumptions correct? 4) All men: You mention this theme again in a later post, so I will address it there. However, I would note here that any restriction of the word ‘all’ must come from the text itself not a theological assumption – otherwise we are engaging in eisgesis. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |