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NASB | Ecclesiastes 6:10 ¶ Whatever exists has already been named, and it is known what man is; for he cannot dispute with him who is stronger than he is. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ecclesiastes 6:10 ¶ Whatever exists has already been named [long ago], and it is known what [a frail being] man is; for he cannot dispute with Him who is mightier than he. |
Subject: Predestination |
Bible Note: Greetings Michael T.! First of all, welcome to the forum! Secondly, you wrote: "Since the Scriptures confirm (refer Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:29-30) that Election and Pre-destination to salvation are Divinely-accomplished Facts which were completed by God the Father from before the creation of the universe, this itself proves that Christ's atonement was always intended to be limited; i.e. not universal in its practical extent." The problem with this statement is that it is based upon assumption concerning the meanings of these terms rather that what Scripture actually says. For instance, did Christ only die for the 'elect'? Scripture never says such a thing. Scripture does say: 1 Tim. 2:3-6 - "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time." It also says, Heb. 2:9 - "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." Further, Rom. 5:18 - "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." Yet, there is not a single verse of Scripture which states that Christ did not die for all. Yet, inferences are made from Scripture to support that Christ did not die for all, inferences which are not justified by the texts. For instance, look at the verses used in your post to support the view that " it was always the will of GOD that they should be excluded from salvation." They simply do not say any such thing. Here are the complete text of the verses: 1) Rev. 20:15 - "If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Nothing is said in this verse about God's eternal will for these individuals. 2) Mt. 25:41 - "‘‘Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."" Again, no mention of God's eternal will for these individuals. 3) Rev. 21:8 - "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Again, no mention of God's eternal will for these individuals. Yet, these verses are used as 'support' for the following statement from your post: "(b) all the remainder; i.e. all unbelievers, a.k.a. the Reprobate or non-elect, in respect of whom it was always the will of GOD that they should be excluded from salvation, and who all inevitably perish in their sin and unbelief [Revelation 20:15; Matthew 25:41; Revelation 21:8]." So, my challenge to you is this: Support your statement with actual Scriptural statements that say that Christ did not die for everyone and that God has always willed that some perish eternally. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |